That Ranching Podcast

The risk is greater than ever. Record prices are awesome, but the financial risk and liability of owning these calves, it's intense and it's stressful. Well, welcome back to That Ranching Podcast. Today, we're lucky to be in Lubbock, Texas at Texas Tech sitting here with Doctor Ryan Rathmann. Doc, introduce yourself to the listeners. Yeah, you bet. Thank you for having me. My name is Ryan Rathmann. So I'm a beef cattle professor here in the animal and food sciences program. And so most of my career I've spent coaching the livestock judging team. But by trade, I'm I'm a reproductive physiologist and a rumenant nutritionist and really, really just passionate about moving the beef industry forward, whether that be in on repro or nutrition or health or meat science and growth and development. Just an enthusiast for the industry and really enjoy research and research that's practical, right? That can truly make a difference for our stakeholders that being cattle producers at every level. Well I really respect what you've just said and I think we have a strong alignment right out of the gate when you said just doing things to move the industry forward. You're doing it in your capacity, we're doing it in ours. Yes sir. But the net result is the people we serve, the beloved beef industry here in America. You know, I first met Doctor Rathmann at Hemphill Beef Conference in Canadian, Texas April this year, April twenty twenty six. Ever since that time, I've wanted to sit down and have a podcast to help glean and have you share with our viewers some of the insights that for me was an 'Aha' moment back in April. So doc, if you could just speak a little bit about in my terms that energy redirection. I think that's cool both for the cow calf folks and for the feedlot space. It applies to both. Absolutely. Yeah. Let me talk on that just a little bit and then you can redirect me if you need me to go a different direction. Okay? So, yeah. I I really enjoy evaluating beef cow efficiency and trying to figure out, you know, a lot of the talks like the talk I gave that day honestly was aimed at trying to decipher the most optimal cow size as defined by mature weight. And then also her milk production level. That's kind of a cow herd level, because we're talking about means. Not every cow is gonna be the same size, the same milk level. Right? And so we're talking about striking that optimum for your cow herd. Then we do a lot of research as well looking at individual cows and differences amongst them that make some more energetically efficient versus others, right? And so I think in the long run we've got to get a better handle on this. So from a genetic selection standpoint, we can start to identify these genetic lines that are more energetically efficient, that do more with less, that are, you know, healthier and just, you know, convert God's grass to more total pounds of beef and maybe specifically pounds of lean at the very end of the system. And so that's where my heart's at. That's where I like investigating. And where I think honestly some of the low hanging fruit is in our beef industry. If we're going to make really true strides in reducing our carbon footprint to produce a pound of beef, I think it lies a lot in what we're about to talk about. And so that day, you know, I think what sparked your interest was talking about the cow. I think first you need to you need to take a step back and say, hey, what is the cow spending most of her energy on? And most of her energy, about seventy percent of it in the in her production year is gonna be spent on maintenance. And so, just to make sure we're all on the same page, maintenance energy is basically if you fed a cow, x number of calories and she neither gained nor lost weight, she you'd be feeding her at maintenance. Right? And so when you'd start to break that maintenance requirement down, what I was actually mostly after that day was discussing how much of it is utilized by her GI tract. So I kind of missed the point, the main point you were making. No its all good, we'll get there. We'll get there. This is like my catch up day. About thirty eight to fifty four percent of a cow's energy consumption that's dedicated towards maintenance is going to be consumed by the liver and the GI tract. And a big part of that is the liver. I generally I just generally round it and say the liver consumes about twenty five percent. You know, the liver is very expensive simply because, so many of our metabolic reactions are occurring there. The storage of nutrients, and then the acquisition of them and the distribution of them to the target tissues across the cow's body. And so it's huge in dairy cows. Cows that give more milk are going to have larger livers. It goes hand in hand. Even progeny out of cows that have more milk, They're say steer and heifer progeny in the feedlot. They're actually going to have larger livers and their maintenance requirement will be a little higher. So consequently, if you look at their feed conversion rates, they're not quite as good. And so there's reasons not just at the cow herd level, but all the way through the receiving and the feedlot phase to try to optimize milk production levels so we can optimize liver size. Right? And then, the GI tract, you know, the four stomachs and the small intestine, large intestine, that'll that'll consume another sixteen to twenty four percent. So anyway, so that's kind of a big part of what we were talking about that day. But I want to let's take a little look into maybe the other components. Right? Physical activity is one. And it gets counted as maintenance requirement. And so if you have cows, cows could have anywhere from say ten to fifty percent of their calories they consume actually be expended on on foraging. Right? Walking around. They walk miles and miles and miles. They may Cows being cows. Yeah. Exactly. They they may walk more miles than an international soccer player. Right? I think they say an international soccer player that plays in the midfield runs about ten miles a game. So that cow probably has that soccer player beat. But, I used to do a lot of confined cow calf system research. And when you put cows in confinement and make them a couch potato like a feedlot steer, you reduce their maintenance energy requirements by about twenty five percent. We don't often think about that. But probably a lot of your customers that y'all serve are in the western half of the United States. And their cows are spread out. They've got to walk a long ways to water and a long ways to grass or long ways to that supplement depending if you're trying to use it for grazing distribution purposes. That eats up a lot of calories. Right? And a lot of times you can't do anything about that. Right? But it is important to understand that that's part of the maintenance requirement. So another one that we talked about that day that's big is the immune system. And so the immune system on a daily basis will consume about fifteen to maybe upwards of forty or even fifty percent. Wow. Of the energy that a cow consumes on a daily basis. Right? And so when you look at that spread, the cows that may only be consuming fifteen percent, those are the healthy cows. Right? They're not mounting an acute immune response to a disease per se that's in heavy abundance or pathogen that's heavy abundance in her environment at the time. And so, you know, she doesn't have to spend quite as much. What I think your viewership needs to understand though is the like I talked about with the liver being energy demanding. Right. The immune system is highly energy demanding. And more specifically, it demands glucose. Glucose is, you know, tremendously important for things like marbling deposition. And so when you when you shift that that precursor away from something like marbling to having to take care of the priority which is survival. Mounting an immune immune response because that's more important. It takes it takes priority. Then we can burn a lot of calories and divert it from maybe our own production objectives for growth and for marbling deposition. I think maybe I quoted that day one thing you told me, Trevor, that was kind of neat. In some like lighter weight calf studies, There's calves that can burn up to a pound of glucose in just a few to several hours, when they're trying to combat something like BRD. That's huge. Right? I mean, they could literally lose weight and you can understand why. Their intake goes down. That's the problem. It's kind of a a double edged sword. Right? The calf's sick. He eats less. He gets less calories. But then his immune system is also demanding more fuel. And so it kind of goes backwards and that's kind of what sends him a tailspin. That's why it's important to keep him healthy in prevention. You know dependent upon what they're having to deal with in their local environment that immune system can really really consume a lot of fuel. It's very enlightening to me and it's kind of a no brainer when you stop and think about it. This conserving, better optimizing available energy because we're talking the same diet. Whether it's a feedlot calf or a cow out on pasture, it's the same diet but it's what are we doing to better optimize the available energy. That's right. Help us and the viewers maybe unpack that a little bit as to how does the body know to say, Hey, we're good here. Let's use this for weight gain. No, that's a good question. Yeah. I guess maybe the best way I can explain it is survival or Darwinism takes priority, right? You think about our own needs. It's kind of hard to maybe explain how does the body per se prioritizes it other than we just have to understand that mother nature knows best. Yes. And mother nature says, if you can't survive, then everything else like reproduction Comes second. That's out the window. Yeah. Right? And I don't care what we're talking about physiologically. That's the case. And the immune system is going to take priority over everything else. I guess maybe that's the best way I could explain it without getting too scientific. That's cool. I like the way you're talking to me so I can understand. But so mother nature is doing the prioritizing. Yes. We don't totally understand how she does but she knows. Yes. So what comes second after the immune system? Yeah. Would say probably after that the priority is on the GI tract. If if the if that cow can't take what she consumes and and and, you know, and put it to use Yeah. Then the the immune system never gets to use it, right? Guess you could make the argument that perhaps the GI tract is first and the immune system is second. The only reason I may say that's a little bit different is because when you get a cow on a negative energy balance, she'll actually lose, visceral organ weight. And so the GI tract shrinks. It kind of goes hand in hand with intake, but the liver will shrink. Right? So you start looking at a cow that's going backwards from a say a BCS five to four to three to a two. She actually drops five to ten percent, with each of those full body score drops in her daily maintenance energy requirement. So it's actually cheaper to operate a cow that's thin as opposed to optimal or especially fat. But the reason is because her visceral organ weight shrunk. Right. And so, mostly as she goes backwards, it's going to be muscular atrophy. Just like if you or I were sick, you know, we're laid up for a few days with the stomach flu and we're throwing up and, even though there's probably other areas of our body we wish would lose weight on. We probably realized that after a few days, we've probably lost a little bit of muscle mass. That cow as she's going backwards, she'll start to catabolize a lot of that skeletal muscle and these other protein tissues because most of these organs are mainly protein based. She'll catabolize that and redirect it towards energy when there's times in her diet when she didn't have enough energy to fulfill it. So I'd say the the GI tract's a major priority. The immune system a major priority. And then a lot of the other factors are secondary. You know, we didn't I didn't really mention it, Trevor, but you know, obviously it kind of goes without saying. But things like operating the cow's heart, her lungs, her brain, these obviously are a major priority. Right? After that, we can look towards that cow, dedicating calories towards growth or you know, marbling or even milk production, right? She'll sacrifice and compromise milk production way before she's gonna sacrifice being able to operate her organs or her immune system. Would you say reproduction comes before or after milk production? I would actually say reproduction comes after. Yes. Yeah. And we use that expression, a cow milked herself thin. Right? And it's those thin cows that we wind up being more likely to diagnose open in the fall Yes. And have to cull, right? And so I'd say, to go back to maybe the mother nature sentiment, I would say that mother nature says, take care of the progeny you've got before I equip you with another one. Yeah. That's a quote that we'll keep. That's brilliant. So, just to that point, we've seen countless times over the last two decades with cows or heifers are on an incline coming into breeding, they'll have much better success than even if it's a fat cow on a decline. Because at that point, mother nature is prioritizing. Is that correct? Yeah, I think so. I mean, there's probably a little bit of debate to that but I agree with that. There's probably some signaling mechanisms in regards to just caloric intake, energetic feedback back to the brain that then maybe influences the endocrine system that's, know, hormonally getting that cow prepped and in position to reestablish cyclicity so she can hopefully get bred that, in absence of it or in a negative energy balance probably, are a little different. Right? It may be more meaningful maybe say in like sheep than cattle. I would say in cattle it's probably a little more just her status. Her current condition status maybe even more so than like, hey, today she was in a negative energy balance. Right? And so to me, I definitely agree. I'd rather have a cow going up and expect more reproductive success than going down. The challenge in a production system is a lot of times, we're going this way and and you look at a dairy cow. Right? That's her and that's why they suffer so much from reproductive standpoints. Right. They prove your point. Know, how how how difficult it is fertility wise to get these dairy cows re bred because there's such a huge demand for milk. The the time of the year when you want a beef cow in the best condition is when she calves. Reason being is because it's the cheapest to recondition her prior to that when she's dry Doesn't have a calf on her side. And, now I basically built in an insurance policy for that cow. If she's say at a six, then I can afford for her to lose weight while she's lactating. If I don't have, you know, the absolute maximum nutrition to support it. And she's still at a five. Right? Where your break your break over in a lot of climates is probably that five to four. If we slip to a four and we're still in the middle of the breeding season, we should probably expect our pregnancy rates are going be suppressed, right? And it's environmentally dependent. That may be more so true up north than it is in the southeast per se. But, but yeah, no doubt about it. I agree with you Trevor that, you know, ideally, we'd love that cow to be on the up tick. It's just really hard because she's Yeah. She's trying to to lactate and she's trying to re breed. And if it's a cow less than five, she may even have growth left still to be accomplished in her life. And so there's a lot of priority there. That that, that sixty to ninety days postpartum is when her milk peaks. Yep. And so there's just a lot of demand. It's pretty hard to provide enough nutrition. And mother nature, obviously, we can get drought pretty pretty quickly too. That that it's tough to contend with. So I I think just having, you know, a good management plan in place where you've got the right supplemental program and you're fully utilizing everything that we understand could be beneficial from a reproductive success standpoint and health standpoint would be to a producer's best interest. Well, I think the take home message for the listeners is really looking at whether that cow is out grazing or whatever the program is, there is an unspoken prioritization of demands and survival comes first and then it flows on from there. But let's now just jump into a different space and talk about starting calves in a feedlot the first sixty days and how that whole energy redirection plays in in that space. Yeah, when we jump into that conversation, my biggest deal would probably be, hey, we don't want to be behind the eight ball per se. We want to, like I said, be good planners and say, let's do we have this calf's health and immune system optimized prior to coming into that stressful period. Right? And and no doubt about it, nutrition at that moment is really important. But like I said, a lot of them are slow to maybe start on feed if they've never been exposed to creep. And so having a cow herd that's got the right mineral program, having those calves, pre weaning exposed, you know, to good mineral vitamin and energy and protein, program, certainly sets them up for success once that once that stress comes. But once that once that does come, I completely agree with you. I mean, I think for me the priority initially is palatability. We're trying to teach that calf how to eat. And so, whatever nutritional company you're dealing with, you you want to go with one that, you feel like is is making that a priority in my opinion. In terms of just, is this a palatable feed stuff or supplement? Do they want to come to the bunk? Does it engage them? Because it's you're intake dependent. We can talk all day about all these energy demands. But if they're not eating it. If they're not eating calories then it's going to be a tough battle. You're going get into health problems. We had an old nutritionist that always used to say, to your point, you want a calf healthy, hungry, and up at the bunk. And so if we don't get it up to the bunk, we have much bigger problems at play. I agree with you. But I love where you're going. You start with the foundation. You got to have foundational immune health and mineral status, whatever company that you're getting that from. But then coming into the feed yard, however you'd you know, whether they've been pre weaned or weaned or shipping or co mingling, sale barns, all of this is a huge stress event. Absolutely. And fourteen to twenty one days post stress event, we do have disease breaks. I mean, it's very typical. So maybe talk a little bit about how the energy redirection and a good health status plays into that. Yeah. Doing the best we can. Absolutely. That first couple of leaks I agree with what you said. It kind of depends on the pathogen, right? Something like mycoplasma may break a little bit later, where you may have other BRD pathogens that break a little sooner. So there's a lot, you know, a lot of pathogens have different time courses, but, no doubt about it. Just making certain that we get adequate energy intake And then, perhaps more so even, or just as importantly like that mineral component, that vitamin component and making and making certain we got a lot of protein. We hadn't really mentioned protein. We've been talking energy. But, make no doubt about it, the immune system, although a big fuel consumer, heavily dependent upon protein. Right? A lot of the products that they're producing to try to defense that calf against those pathogens are going be built with protein. Right? Right. And so we got to make certain that's a priority too. Balancing, you know, their ruminodegradable protein versus that escape protein, to make certain that we've got that in concert. But I think if we have challenges during that time frame, obviously it could compromise their maximum immune efficiency. And so they you may get higher pull rates. But I think and that's kind of obvious, right? But I think in the long run maybe what we don't think as much about is setting that calf up for long term success. You know, not getting to the point where they're, you know, become a chronic. Yes. Making certain that if we do have to treat them that they can rebound and they don't have any, you know, chronic damage. Right? It doesn't go so severe that we get long term liver abscesses or lung abscesses that compromise that calf's growth and efficiency. Those are the calves that are really the killers as far as Right. On the bottom line, besides the mortality. But, and then what I was talking about was maybe more so any days spent of that calf quote unquote unhealthy or where they've got to devote closer to that forty or fifty percent of the calories they're consuming versus the fifteen percent. That's a calf that's not, you know, necessarily set up as well probably from a marbling standpoint in long run. They're not quality grade as well. So yeah, there's a lot of carcass effects are decided And you've seen that. Yes. A lot of carcass effects are decided, you know, one hundred and fifty, two hundred days prior to You spoke about the long term. So just to zone in on that first sixty days, what we do in that sixty days getting that calf up to the bunk, getting it on feed, helping the immune system. How much does that actually impact the trajectory throughout that calf's days in the feed yard? Oh, it could be huge, right? And so I think a lot of times when we look at scientific research from a practical or applied standpoint, they'll try to do comparisons where they put them in silos and say, these are calves that never got treated. This is how they performed carcass weight wise, quality, you know, grid distribution. And then, you know, pulled once, you know, and then pulled twice and then pulled more than that. Right? And they'll try to make those applied comparisons. I mean, it's massive. I mean, it's hundreds and hundreds of dollars difference between these calves that haven't been treated and these calves that are that have been treated multiple times. And so when you add up the the medicine costs from antibiotic perspective plus, you know, the reduction or depression in long term growth and performance and feed conversion, their cost of gain is much higher. And again, a lot of times you generally always see a carcass weight difference amongst those comparisons that I stated. Okay. It's probably the biggest thing right now, right? When carcass is worth, whatever the market's at two, two twenty, two twenty five, two thirty today per pound and you can see a eight, ten, twenty, thirty pound difference in a lot of those comparisons, maybe more. We're talking about a significant amount of money. The stakes are high. Excuse the pun. But the stakes are high. And for the feeder, he may not necessarily be making a whole bunch more margin. It's good conditions for the cow calf man and we appreciate that. They've had tough times not that many years ago So we're we appreciate that. But maybe you can speak a little bit with what's at stake and how much these calves cost. They're not making a whole lot more margin. Can you speak to managing that risk? The risk is greater than ever, right? And that's the tough part about the cattle business today. Record prices are awesome, but the financial risk and liability of owning these calves, it's intense and it's stressful. And so to me, there's never been a more logical time to get better at your craft. And when I say that, I'm saying your nutritional craft, your vaccination schedule, your preventative measures. Right? And a lot of that is based on nutrition. And so just make certain you're working with a company or nutritionist that can help guide in your specific environment and management conditions. A good plan so that that that you can protect that investment. Margins have been pretty bloody here in feedlot sector the last couple of years. And, you know, I think, maybe one thing worth mentioning is, you know, in today's climate, you know, those feeders are basically forced to feed them for forever to try to get on the better side of this profit equation. Right. Because that initial investment is so much. They've just got to get so much carcass weight out of them to ever come out in the black. And so that again, that just elevates the importance of making certain that health is on the up and up. Right. To try to protect that. We talked about maybe the overall just well-being of the animal and things that happen in the first few weeks of receiving. I don't know. I'm speculating a little bit. But we're talking about organ integrity and we're talking about things that may have some influence on late deads. And so you know, given the fact that we're taking these cattle such extreme weights, you know, we probably need to consider that the implications of what's going on those first few weeks. Foundational. Yeah. That's a good that's a great way to put it. Foundational. Maybe foundational to being able to support cattle that can go to that heavy of a weight. And just thinking practically speaking, we're sitting in on the second floor of the animal science building here at Texas Tech. But it's supported by a foundation, right? You couldn't build a structure like this. And as far as the floor coverings and this nice office we're in, it's all great but the foundation came first to support that. It all has a huge impact. Just to wrap up here, Doctor. Rathmann, can you speak to the mood of the beef industry right now? There's a lot going on. There's a lot of risk. There's a lot of optimism. Well, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of factors at play right now. I I think we still got to be excited about the beef industry no matter what happens. I mean, the people that are a part of it, they choose to be a part of it because fits their lifestyle, fits their passions. Yeah. And I know some days can be tough. It's fun because, you're balancing the science and physiology that we talked about and somehow doing your very best to understand all that. But at the end of the day, figure out how to translate that to just good practical everyday decisions. Yeah. That can, keep our cattle healthier and, keep them more profitable, consequently. But, it's a great time to be in the beef industry. I'll say this, I felt like when I went to college in the nineties, I'm forty six now. But when I was in college as an animal science student, I almost felt like I was discouraged by my professors to go actually raise cattle. Because in that period of time, the beef system in the United States probably only generated about thirty five, forty dollars of total profit across every segment. Okay? So that shared cow, calf, stocker, feedlot, packer. Even though I know I was studying it, I was still yet discouraged. And so, let's fast forward now to two thousand twenty six. There's nearly nine hundred dollars worth of profit built into every animal that we generate in this industry that's shared across these segments. So no doubt about it. The cow calf guy is getting probably even more than that, last year or this year. And then at the other's expense based on, you know, inventory. Right. Packers and feedlots, taking it in the shorts a little bit. But, let's look at the bigger picture and appreciate the fact that we have built the premium protein in the world and we have tremendous consumer demand that has gifted us the opportunity to build in nine hundred dollars worth of profit. And so I know some days are tough, but that to me should be positive information to push you forward and say there's always opportunity to make money. Yeah. Well, you pushed through in the nineties and I think we can take a cue from that. There is optimism. It's worth being passionate about. People are still voting with their checkbooks. The beef demand is is really strong. Great words of wisdom you shared with us, doctor Rathmann. That wraps up our That Ranching podcast. We'll see you next Thursday.

And about fifty percent of them would laugh in my face when I said, I'm trying to figure out a way to help feedlots reduce or eliminate antibiotic usage. Welcome back to that ranching podcast where you join us around the kitchen table to talk about things that matter to men and women in ranching. Well, I say ranching. This is probably a got a little bit of a twist to it. Twain, maybe you can, tell the viewers where we're going in this podcast. Absolutely. Well, we're excited to announce the launch of our new Turboboost program, which some of you may have heard of the Turboboost Paste. We relaunched early May of twenty twenty five. It's been quite a journey over the last about a year and a half, but sure. Including running out of paste. Maybe you want to talk about the new tub we're launching. Yeah. So the turbo boost program is in short a tool for feed yards, starting calves, high risk calves. It includes a dose of paste at arrival and then sixty days exposure to the tub. But before I go into that, can I go like way back? Yeah. The history here. Alberta, about fifteen years ago, this is long before paste or the Turboboost program, we had a customer that, had a baby calf that was sick and they had given it everything. Shots of every antibiotic known to man. Couldn't turn it around. Finally, one evening, he dragged it into a barn with its mother and he was about to go in for the night and he said it's gonna be dead in the morning. He thought one last thing. He thought, you know, that Riomax tubs that he was using, if he could somehow get that into the calf. He took a hammer and a chisel and he went at whatever ten eleven at night and he chiseled himself a chunk of tub. Went into the kitchen, mixed it with hot water, dissolved it, put it in a drench gun and drenched that calf, shut the barn door, went to bed and said to himself, I'll I'll drag that dead calf out in the morning. He went out in the morning, opened the door and that calf was up sucking. He said to us, you guys have got to figure out how you can get a condensed concentrated form of the tub into a paste. So that's where the paste came from and we called it as we launched last year twenty twenty five, the tub in a tube. Obviously, very concentrated form. But to that formula, we added a few extra sciences to help stimulate and and get an immune response. And that's kind of where we started seeing some traction, didn't we, Twain? Yeah. It was last winter coming into spring, we started to see some guys doing the the paste, the Turboboost paste in in the feed yard situation, in sick pens or in receiving cattle, and and even some alongside the PG three sixty and the Repel tubs. So that got us thinking. For about two years, I've been researching and pursuing a dream. I have a dream, and maybe that's all it'll ever be. But that is to help guys starting calves to wean themselves off of dependence on antibiotics. Which means against life. And so maybe it's all it'll never be more than a dream. But when you start pursuing something and chasing something, you find doors open. And I would sit down with the brightest minds in the industry. PHD nutritionists. And about fifty percent of them would laugh in my face when I said, I'm trying to figure out a way to help feedlots reduce or eliminate antibiotic usage. But the other half, when I said, I need a new sheriff in town, all barrels blazing, the best of the best, all natural of course, no drugs, no chemicals. Over the course of time, we found that there were different technologies and sciences that we could use and then incorporated them. So when we've done these trials on the Turboboost program in the south, all the data was collected from using that, you might say, the Repel tub with all the antioxidants, everything you expect in the Riomax tub plus a few additives. It's got a bumper level of the Riomune yeast which ties up and flushes out the bad guys. Scour causing bacteria. Bad bacteria just gets rid of the bad guys. Then a bumper level of the key trace minerals that really fuel the immune system. And then finally, probably the most important thing is the Turbomune, which Turbomune is an immune response activation. And it's like an on switch for the immune response. So think of it, instead of a sick calf getting antibiotics, that sick calf is now empowered to fight off disease challenges from the inside out. We're not saying it's a silver boat, it's not a cure all, but the data we've seen so far is very exciting. Absolutely and just to touch on that, so the tub, when we set out, this is not specifically designed for Riomax customers necessarily. Exactly. You know, guys that are if you're running your cattle on year round, and weaning them on already, you don't necessarily need to look at upgrading to the Turboboost tub. Although, we'll touch on that in a minute. We got guys that are are doing that. But, yeah, that's a good point. Really, it was mainly designed for guys that are bringing in high risk calves, un weaned calves that are they're being commingled, they have a suppressed immune system, and typically low mineral levels coming in, and and they need a they need a boost as the Turboboost program would would imply. But Trevor, you were telling me earlier, do you want to explain how you've you know, guys wondering, is it a fit for me? How you how you let them qualify themselves. So the the biggest things we've seen on the trials we've done, you know, less treats, less doctoring, less retreats, less death loss, and more weight gain. And I say to guys, if any of those four are important to you, then Turboboost program is important to you. The other thing,Twain, I would say that who who it may not be a fit for, let's say it's a Riomax guy. Those calves have been on the the Riomax program since they were, in the fetus stage and, they may not need to to use this. In in talking to one cattle trader in Montana last week, He said, boy, if anybody has any questions or doubt as to the mineral status or the immune status or you don't know where those calves came from or you know where they were commingled or shipped from. If there is a question and with the size of the prize, in other words the risk with what these calves are worth, he said he would definitely do it. Worth worth the investment. Hundred hundred percent. Yeah. And and actually just to put some numbers to that, so the Turboboost program, what it looks like, it's a dose, a thirty cc dose of the Turboboost paste on receiving the cattle, and then a one round of tubs out to the cattle. We're looking at one tub per twenty five head, and that's gonna last you between forty five and sixty days at average consumption. And so total cost all in, we're looking at about forty bucks a head for per calf. You know, bringing bringing them in, getting them the paste, as well as the tub through that initial sixty day period. With those numbers in mind, you know, a forty a forty dollar program and given that calf the best chance, you know, setting the trajectory for its entire life in the feed yard, let's bounce back to some of the summer data we have. We did a bunch of trials in the south just because that's where calves are moving. So we got Oklahoma and we got Texas Panhandle which you know, there's a lot of cattle fed there. And then we got East Texas. Oklahoma, we had the Turboboost tub program versus control that happened to be another stress tub. The numbers were as follows. Treat rate, five point two percent on Turboboost calves versus fifteen point two on the other program. And then weight gain, two point two pounds a day versus one point eight eight. Now we're not guaranteeing weight gain, but when you have a healthy calf, more of that energy does go to weight gain versus just feeding the immune system. Just got an update from the Texas Panhandle trial after the sixty days. Out of two hundred nine head, one dead, so point four percent death loss versus ten percent on the same the brothers and sisters of these calves from the same ranch in the same feed yard last year. So point four percent death loss versus ten percent and two point two pounds average daily gain. They came in at seven hundred pounds, had a bunch of baby fat to lose. They had a lot of hundred and five degree weather. No rain, super dusty, lot of stress that way. But he said not easy calves to get along with, but there we have it. Let's bounce to East Texas. Treatment rate, so doctoring down thirty percent. Retreats down thirty percent. And then weight gain was, one point six pounds on the the control group and two point one on the Turboboost group. So here you see, you know, from point five pound increased daily gain to point three two on the low side. Just to give you directionally where we're at. Could you also touch on where it didn't work? Yes. Good point. So I've given you three sets of data. The fourth one was done in New Mexico. And this guy told me, he said, I'm bringing in good quality calves. He paid really good for them. Ranch raised. And he brought in a set of steers and a set of heifers. He put the steers on the Turboboost program, heifers on his just his standard practice. And and just a quick point there. We're not saying change anything in your program. We're saying in on top of. Right? Don't get rid of your nutritionist. Don't change your ration. This is on top of. So what he said to me on day thirty eight, so we're not through that sixty day, but we're over the worst of it. He says, you know what? I haven't treated any on either group. So in that case, technically, it wasn't just a roaring success for Turboboost. But just to give you some context of where it really shines and where it maybe doesn't have as much impact. However, he said by day thirty eight, he said the steers, the Turboboost group, seem to be eating and converting a little better. They look stronger than the heifers. So jury's still out on that one. He thinks from what he's seeing, he's going to get, you know, some weight gain there that he's, you know, more so than the other group. But I'm glad you asked that, Twain, because the viewers might be saying, you know, where would I use this? Or who's a fit? Who's not a fit? And I think that's good because just like any of the Riomax family of products, the tubs or the Rhyzogreen is, we got to look at where are you currently at? You know, what are you looking to get done? So this is probably more in terms of treat rates, death loss, weight gain, and what are you what are you looking to get done in your operation? What's it gonna cost you to incorporate the Turboboost program? And does it make sense in your situation? So as always, love to discuss a little bit further with you, see what makes sense in in your situation, but we do got a lot of guys doing to start off with, and we're strongly encouraging it, is to do it, do a comparison yourself. So as you're receiving cattle this fall, let's say you're getting them in in groups of a hundred at a time, we would recommend doing at least two, but probably three if you can groups of the Turboboost calves. So if you're getting in a hundred calves, let's say two hundred calves a week and they come in in one hundred head groups, you do a group of the Riomax calves, a group of control, a group of the Riomax calves, a group of control, group of the Riomax calves, a group of control. And that sounds quite extensive, but why we're recommending that is what we've seen is if you have a guy where they're bringing in cattle once a week, let's say, and they bring in a group of cattle, they put it on Riomax, and then they bring in the next week, it really heats up, and then they receive a bunch more cattle that is their control group. Well, that group that comes in in a hundred and seven degree heat is at an unfair advantage regardless of the program they're at. So to stagger it so you can you have those controls in there, think is very important to actually be able to measure that over not just one one group versus the next is you you got a couple tests. And it'll help you take some of those variables out and get yourself a truer test. Going back to we knew starting with the repel tub, we knew that we could make traction on less treats and less retreats just with that. But when you added those three things I mentioned, that's where we've seen that extra getting us to the next level. And people ask, you know, why the paste and the tub? And the best way to say it is it's like coming onto an interstate that that pace is like your on ramp getting you up to speed and fast right now. And then the the tub is to maintain exposure to that tub maintains that calf through that critical sixty day period where you're setting the stage, you're setting the trajectory for that calf's gain. So one question we get a lot is, is there Bogotech or rumensin in it? Twain? The short answer is no. It's all natural. The ingredients in the Turbo Boost program is all natural. Everything we have in there for immune activation, none of that is medicated. And the cool thing is it's approved by where food comes from for natural programs. So yes, it is all natural. Dead calves don't gain that good and they're hard to sell. But even if they're alive and they're in the sick pen, you know, we talk about retreats. Sick pen and you get chronics and people are like, man, I just treat them and treat them. That's what we're fighting against, folks. When that immune system is healthy, it's sucking less juice so to speak. And that's known as energy redirection. You take the energy in a diet, what Doctor Ryan Rathman from Texas Tech taught us is that fifteen to forty percent of that energy will go to the immune system. To feeding the immune system. And he explained that, that if that immune system is suppressed, you know, there's disease challenges, it's gonna suck way more energy just to keep that immune system fighting. So up to that forty percent. And the converse, he explained is also true. If that immune system is strong and that that calf is in good rig health wise, way less energy is gonna be used for the immune system and that redirects. This is the beauty of it. That redirects and goes straight to weight gain on those calves. And so he has seen in his meat quality studies where a calf that was sick during the feedlot versus one with a really strong immune system on the same diet, the healthy one marbled better, which is what we get paid for in the beef industry, you know, besides, you know, it's an incentive, besides just weight gain. So I think it's really cool because everyone wants to get more out of what they've already got. And when you have that energy redirection, it's helping you basically pull more energy and use it for weight gain than just fighting the battle on the disease side. So that kind of comes full circle. Health equals weight gain. Health also equals less treats and less antibiotic. You know, that has a cost associated with it. The stress of running them through the chute. The labor. But ultimately, health equals weight gain. One more thing, tub placement. If you imagine a pen like that with the the bunk at the front, we recommend placing your tubs about halfway back, not too close to the front because those cattle are likely skittish and shy and, you know, when the feed truck's driving by, they're gonna hang back. And so placement of your tubs about halfway back and do leave a passing lane because those calves are gonna walk the perimeter. Let them walk. But have that tub set in a little ways so that they walk, they'll smell it and pretty soon one or two stop, then you got six or ten stop. And and and what you're doing is getting calves like, on the program fast and healthy, hungry, and up at the bunk. If bringing your treat rate down and your retreats down, your death loss down, and your weight gain up. If that is important to you, definitely consider this tool. So thanks again for joining us on That Ranching podcast. We will see you again next Thursday morning.

The kind of checks these guys are gonna have to write are gonna blow your mind. Forty bucks a calf on a three thousand dollar calf isn't isn't a lot of money to spend. Well, to That Ranching Podcast where we usually sit around the kitchen table. Here we're out in Cody, Wyoming to talk about things that matter to men and women in ranching and in the feedlot space. So today, I'm joined by Matt Thompson. Matt, thanks for joining us here in Cody. Tell us a little bit about yourself and and why are you here today because you're from Idaho. Yep. I'm from the eastern Idaho area. My family's been in the ranching business for over a hundred a hundred and fifteen years or so. And right now, we're cow calf producers. When we first come to Idaho, we were in the sheep business in nineteen ten I believe my grandfather came here and like a lot of ranchers in Eastern Idaho it's slowly converted over to cattle. So got three boys and and I'm married to my wife Jamie. We're here in Cody today because I've been a video rep for several different companies over the years, fifteen years or so, but I market quite a few calves every every summer and and we ship them in the fall and early spring usually. I handle some breeding stock, but I've always wanted to be in the be a rancher and be in the business like my my dad and my grandfather. I'm hoping I can hold it all together so my sons can be in the ranching business and and it's the only thing I've ever wanted to do. Well, that's a great story. We got your great grandfather, your grandfather, your father, yourself and then your sons. You said you had three sons? I've got some sons and my brother's involved in the ranch with me and he's got some sons as well and some kids that want to be involved. We're talking generational, that's five generations and that's a really heartwarming story because that's the fabric of rural North America really is that generational aspect to ranching. And so just to jump into the here and now, we've got the sale today. Talk to us a little bit about where the industry is at and the optimism and some of the prices you expect to see today. The cattle business has been phenomenal the last few years. But the reason that that it's been phenomenal is because the numbers are way down. The supply is low and primarily brought on by drought and different factors, but we've sold and I've even sold my own calves for money that you'd never would have thought of ten years ago. But we'll have calves selling today from twenty five hundred to three thousand dollars ahead I would would say some even more than that. A lot of money to have invested in these cattle and you want to do everything you can to keep keep those cattle going and gaining weight and not in the dead pile. Yes sir. Obviously, Rio Nutrition, home of and Rhyzogreen, our focus for the last quarter of a century pretty much has been the cow calf space. The new focus we have or a new segment that we're working on is this feedlot starter space. And I will say right on camera that we are not experts in the feedlot industry. But I will also say we know one or two things about bovine performance in nutrition in terms of immune systems, getting an immune response, digestion, efficiency, overall performance. So with the Turbo Boost program, that is a dose of paste of the Turbo Boost paste on arrival and then sixty days exposure to the Turbo Boost tub. With these guys that are buying these calves today to start in a feed yard or in a backgrounding operation stocker, whatever that is. So the prices are what they are. The the ranchers that we serve, it's good for them. They deserve it. They've had tough years and and we're very very happy for them. Talk to us a little bit about what's going on in the minds of the buyers today and what's at risk. They got to take these calves, some of them from a high stress deal, some of them won't be weaned, some of them will be weaned, but they don't know how they were weaned. I mean, we give them a protocol that they've had shots and everything but they've got a lot of money invested and they just can't afford to have one go home and stand there and lose weight and be sick or die and there's nothing worse than a sick calf. Pneumonia can just devastate these calves on arrival when they get stressed and get hauled twenty hours and unloaded in a place they don't know where they're at and dumped in with a bunch of other calves and nose to nose contact can transfer really fast they can they're you can get in a wreck in a hurry. The kind of checks these guys are gonna have to write for these calves are just gonna blow your mind but they gotta have them they gotta have those pens full and and they're in that business so they got to pay the money to play the game. And we appreciate it. Know speaking from the ranching side of things, the cow calf sector, we appreciate it. We appreciate the consumer out there. Look at the consumer demand even with these prices of beef, Matt, from everything I've heard, people are still voting with their checkbook. They're they're still buying beef at the counter. I think chicken's great but I think it's more, you know, fitting as a salad. Beef stays in the middle of the plate. So we we realize there's optimism but coming with it is this risk. And as Matt alludes to, you don't want something in the dead pile. That's worst case scenario, but you also want something that is, you might say, expressing its genetic potential. How much money and effort and progressive thinking has gone into development of our bloodlines and the genetics. Genetics, yes. And so when we have a stress event, pulling them away from mom, that is a stress event right there. Shipping, commingling, talked about running them through a sale barn or maybe they don't go through a sale barn if it's a video sale, so you you eliminate that stress. But one way or another, we're trying to navigate a path of it's gonna be a stress event, how can we reduce that stress and how can we help that calf respond and heal up, you might say, and get straightened out. I'm very excited about the turbo boost product. I've I've been weaning my calves on on the regular Riomax PG three sixty and I've got a lot of confidence in that. But for these guys that are buying calves and guys putting them together at the sale barn to run his yearlings next year, this is gonna be an invaluable tool just to give them a shot of boost their health. Anything you can do, it's it's gonna be well worth the money to keep them keep them gaining. So the the question comes up, well, how is this different to the regular Riomax? And that's a fir it's built off of the Riomax foundation and then the turbo boost tub specifically has three main things added to it. One is a bumper level of that Riomax yeast that's in every tub but that Riommune yeast ties up and flushes out the bad guys. I don't know if everyone agrees with ice or likes ice but I'm going to use that example. Ice ties up and flushes out and sends home the bad guys. Yep. That shouldn't have been there. That's what Riommune yeast does. So we have a bumper level of that, we have bolstered levels of the key trace minerals to feed that immune system, and then most importantly, we have that Turboimmune which is an all natural package. It serves to stimulate an immune activation response. So let's just talk about an immune system. An immune system is like a military base. It's equipped, it's got troops, it's got artillery, it's got ammunition, it's got training. As soon as there's a threat, it goes into high alert mode. It goes into fight, fight, fight mode. And that is what we refer to with turbo immune as that immune response activation. It's like an on switch for that fight, fight, fight mode. And where we're going with this folks is pursuing my dream and maybe that's all it is, is a dream, Matt, to help these guys starting calves to wean themselves off of dependence on antibiotics. Definitely. I don't think we'll ever get it done completely. But already we're making progress to that end so that instead of treating a disease challenge that comes from a stress event with an antibiotic, we do it the other way around working with mother nature and have that calf fight off and respond to that disease challenge with an immune response. Yep. That's the science behind it. A lot of the calves we'll sell today will be programmed calves, meaning they can be third party verified as verified natural and hormone free. And I mean, the American consumer has kinda shown that that the grocery store that they're willing to pay a little more for one. They know where it came from and know that it hasn't had antibiotics. This real product qualifies. It won't take you out of a natural program. It qualifies for third party. My own cattle are I sell this program, and if I have to treat one, it doesn't get to go on the truck with my natural calves. It goes to the sale barn and it sells out a discount to the rest of them. What sort of a discount? What what does that cost to you when it gets kicked out? Some of these natural programs, these calves are a couple hundred dollars ahead. You sell one on the video sale in front of a competitive bidding situation for a big amount of money, you might take it to the sale barn in October and it might sell it midnight at a discount, know. You just don't know. Which really comes full circle, Matt, back to our purpose at Rio. We're just a family business. And that is driving profitability back to rural North America. And that is the core or the lens through which we make every decision. When you talk about getting kicked out of the program and that money that we really leave on the table, that hurts. Right? What the cost of this turbo boost is is gonna sound awful cheap once you start losing cows out of calves out of a program or the weight loss, dead calves, you can pay for some some paste in some tubs pretty quick. And to your point, the the turbo boost paste and the turbo boost tub are both verified with where food comes from for those all natural programs. That was the first thing we got run through the the no one wants to be using something. Oh, that doesn't qualify. So that's all good there. You talked about using the regular Riomax for weaning, and guys have done that for over two decades. The thing we see there is they get up on feed faster in that transition and they overcome stress. Now with this, the Turbo Boost program, it's sort of on steroids and the question is, well, how is that tracking in terms of data? So for those that are hungry for data to justify a decision one way or the other, I have some early data that's come in. And obviously, we've been doing trials on the turbo boost program in the south just because that's where calves are moving sooner. So we've got Oklahoma, East Texas, and Texas Panhandle. So Oklahoma, there was a study done turbo boost versus control, and of course, that's the paste and the sixty day exposure. Treat rate, if that's important to you, five point two percent on turbo boost versus fifteen point two on the other group and a two point two pound daily gain over sixty days average versus a one point eight eight. That's real money. That's real money and health, folks, equals gain. I know that sounds corny but it's true. When that immune system is not trying to fight a disease, conserves the energy in that diet, the same diet, and it'll take more of that energy and channel it to weight gain and that's what we're seeing here in Oklahoma. Let's jump to the East Texas, treatments were down thirty percent. And retreats, which retreats kind of gives a shiver up your spine. Right? Because a lot of time a retreat could be on the way to a chronic and then they stay in that sick pen and go nowhere. Treatments down thirty percent and retreats down thirty percent also. And they're showing up in weight gain at two point one pound average daily gain versus a one point six. So there we have a half a pound differential over those sixty days. And then jumping to the Texas Panhandle, obviously, a lot a lot of cattle fed there, Seven percent treat rate versus a fourteen. And retreats point nine five percent, so just under one percent versus four. And then a zero death loss versus five percent. Now, it's hard to make money on dead cattle. That's the obvious. The frustration here and the risk that's at stake is you can't afford to not have calves gaining at their genetic potential or flatlining. And so we're not this is not a silver bullet but it is some good honest tools that are all natural that we can pull some levers with the immune system, with the digestive system, with the appetite, get them up to that bunk sooner, get them on feed sooner. And as our old nutritionist, German nutritionist said years ago, and he just passed a couple years ago, Fransky used to say in his German brogue, is a healthy hungry calf up at the bunk. Oh yeah. Is this sounding like a different language or does this make sense? It makes sense to me. I think the buyer knew that the calves would been on a turbo boost Riomax program. I think they add value to those calves. I think they're worth a little more to them because they got the confidence to know they're not gonna fall apart on them. I think you guys are going in the right direction for sure and I'm real excited about the turbo boost. And then the last question that comes up, well, how much is it? Because everybody's watching their dollars and I get that I'm in business too. For the program, that dose of paste on arrival and sixty days exposure to the tub, you're looking at around that thirty eight dollar mark. That's the cost of this technology to get you a healthy, hungry calf up at the bunk. It's not a cure all. We're not promising that you can step away from antibiotics completely, but follow us on this journey because with this dream, when you have a dream and you're pursuing something, it makes you do things that you wouldn't have done otherwise and we're pursuing this path to help these folks get by with less dependence on antibiotics. I think with your explanation on the weight gain, you just showed them how these tubs are going to pay for their selves too because I mean it's it's real money that's gonna go back in your pocket with added weight gain and and less sickness. So Matt, before we wrap up, you're no stranger to the Riomax science and all natural technology. Maybe you could just say a little to the listeners as to what you have seen over the years with calves, weaning, stress, disease, etcetera. I like it all year round. Reel's an excellent product, but when I'm calving, I've seen baby calves two days old standing there licking that Riomax tub and it just helps get them going, it helps them their hair slick off and get them started right. But those baby calves that have been on the Riomax in the fall when you when you expose it to them, they know what it is and they go right to licking those tubs and it really helps them get calmed down and acclimated and know things are okay. But I've seen way better health on the on the calves, way less doctoring, just shinier healthier hair coats and their eyes, their ears are up. It's a game changer in my mind. I have one last question and I'm gonna ask you publicly and and I want a totally honest candid response. For the cow calf guys that have been on a Riomax program, like you said, that calf in the fetus at birth all the way through, they've been on the program. Do those calves need to be weaned on the Turbo Boost program? Or are they fine because we've built up the foundation of their immune system and their mineral status? Personally, probably stick for my own calves. I'll probably stick with the regular p g three sixty, but I'm not buying outside calves and introducing them. If I was at the sale barn buying calves or if I was at the video sale buying buying load lots of calves, when they got off that truck they'd have turbo boost and they'd have turbo boost tubs in the paste when we processed them. Forty bucks a calf on a three thousand dollar calf isn't isn't a lot of money to spend. Well, thanks, Matt. Thanks for joining in and and giving us some industry knowledge and expertise coming from, you know, boots on the ground ranching and in this buying and selling. And and good luck today at the sale, by the way. As always, we'll see you next Thursday. I can't promise next Thursday will look quite like this. We might be back in our ugly little kitchen table back in Redwood Falls. But for now, enjoy the Cody Wyoming scenery. And again, thank you Matt for joining us.

If there was ever a time to get out of your box and try something new, this might be the best time to do it. Well, welcome back to That Ranching podcast. Today, we're have the privilege of being in Red Lodge, Montana joined by Terrill Ostrom. Terrill, go ahead and introduce yourself to the, listeners. Hi. Terrill Ostrom with, Lazy TM Livestock. We're a cow calf stocker operation here in the, Red Lodge, Roscoe, Fishtail, Montana area. In the last three years, I've become a dealer for Rio. We appreciate you being part of the family. The discussion today relative to the turbo boost calf starter program is to hear from Terrill a little bit in terms of the work you do as a broker and if we can just go up thirty thousand feet to understand the industry and the needs of this industry from where you sit and from how you see it. It all kind of goes hand in hand. Not only do we run the cow calf and stocker operation, but I also have a a brokerage business. That business runs under the auspice of Crossroads Cattle Company. Right. And Crossroads is the company that I clear through. It's owned by two gentlemen based out of Austin, Texas, Les Callahan and Jenning Steen. And they're very very gracious and very professional in that brokerage company. They're kind of our back office support. So we're able to trade cattle, through the barns, through videos, and more importantly, rancher to rancher direct in the country. The the firm itself, probably handles upwards of two hundred and forty thousand cattle a year. And what sort of area do they cover? You know, that's that's why I like working with Crossroads is because we don't we don't we're not set with any geographic locations. We basically buy cattle from California to Georgia, a few into Florida. So that'd give you an idea. Washington State and then send cattle up into Minnesota and that part of the country. So no geographic boundaries. Yeah, that's great. As the listeners would realize, where Rio has been operating for twenty five years is in the cow calf space. We're known for the tub that pays for itself and feed and forage savings, hay and forage savings alone. And coming out into this country, I see grass. Obviously, there's a lot of drought affecting Wyoming, Montana. I was in Kansas yesterday. So that's the cow calf side of it. What we're launching in September is the Turbo Boost program, which is a calf starter program just for the first sixty days. And so we can get into that in a bit here and go over some data we have. But, Terrell, talk to me a little bit about, what are the needs or what are the risks or what are the headaches and frustrations of dealing with these calves, whether they're unweaned or weaned and and shipping and commingling and sale barns. Obviously, you're doing stuff that takes a shortcut around that and makes it easier for folks, but walk us through how people are feeling and what the headaches and frustrations and, you know, in that space. Through the brokerage, we see cattle coming from all different kinds of backgrounds and we see anything from a put together sale barn type animal to a a really country fresh calf with two rounds of modified live around it branding, which is traditional, and then another round two to three weeks prior to weaning. So we see cattle at all different, spectrums and and all different, levels of, stress put put on those calves. One of the goals of everybody that touches one of those ball and calves is is least stress getting them started and getting them hydrated and getting them coming to the bunk. And so I think anything that we can do to supplement that and enhance that experience, anything that we can do to make that transition easier, less stressful, think would be a benefit. Right. And so if we have less stress, what is the product of that? What's the end game for reducing that stress in that whole transition? The the end game is to eliminate the number of treats that you have and and definitely then, you know, we know that we're not gonna be a hundred percent. There's gonna be that percentage of cattle that that you're gonna have to treat. But, if we can lower that number of treats and if we can and and once again, and if we if we have that immune system fine tuned prior to creating the stress on that animal Yeah. Then I think that we'll much better chance of success. And we still might have that percentage that we have to doctor, but we might eliminate those retreats. And I think that we'll have a better chance of whatever we choose as our method of treatment, we'll have a better chance of that working. Exactly. Well, I think we've got two things going on here. If we take the turbo boost program for starting calves and just put it to one side, what Terrell has alluded to is really building the foundation and that's what we do, that's what we eat, sleep and breathe is on the cow herds, you know, the cow is the factory and she needs to be have good mineral status and you have that fetal programming and it starts, you know, in in the cow. Now we fast forward and say, well, if a calf has been on Riomax, its mom's been on Riomax, we still have a stress event at weaning whether we like it or not. But it's less of a stress situation than, say, for example, a calf that was mineral compromised, didn't have good levels of mineral and and had a compromised immune system. That's kind of where where we are in the cow calf space. But stepping into these the starting program with the turbo boost program, we're looking at, you know, thousands of calves from all over the country that may or may not have had a sound foundation, if you like, to start with. And then the question is, how do we navigate that journey and that stress? Because a stress event will ultimately lead to a disease break or challenged immune system. So let's just talk about, let's say for example calves that are not have not been on the Riomax program. Maybe they've been shipped, maybe they've been commingled at a sale barn, they've had a compromised immune system and they hit that feed yard or that stocker operation, you know, they're coming off the back of that big stress event. How does that look now? We've seen all different scenarios given that situation. I think that anything we can do ahead of time like you alluded to but if we get into that situation where nothing's been done ahead of time, then I think anything that we can do to keep that gut healthy is really a big consideration. With the advent of the turbo boost paste and then having the turbo boost in the tub. Right. So for that constant exposure again to maintain that gut health, I think that that's the key. Well, as Terrell says, gut health is huge. The gut is the number one immune organ. You know, if you had a dead calf and you post it, you don't find, oh, here's the immune system. It looks like it was weak or compromised. The immune system is throughout the body, but the gut is the number one component of that immune system. So just to bounce back to the turbo boost program, what it is is on arrival, those calves get a dose of the turbo boost paste. That is like an on ramp to an interstate. Get them up to speed, very powerful dose, and get it get those levels up. Then they're exposed to the turbo boost tub for sixty days. What that does is it's like getting them up to speed on that on ramp but then hitting the cruise control and setting the trajectory of that calf's life in the feed yard in that first sixty days. And you talked about gut health, it's a lot more than that. Sure, it's gut health, it's stimulating the appetite, feeding the good bugs in the rumen, but then tying up and flushing out the bad guys, helping against the scours, helping against the disease causing organisms. But then really the genius of it is fueling the immune system and triggering an immune response. And that's where we see these all natural ingredients that we're using that science helps to reduce the dependence on antibiotics. I have a dream and people say, Maybe that's all it'll ever be. My dream is to reduce the dependence on antibiotics that there is in the feedlot industry, and many people laugh at that. Well, already in the trials we've done summer of twenty twenty six, we're seeing that happening. I didn't say eliminate, but reduce. And so the things we're measuring is number of treats, number of retreats, death loss, and of course weight gain in that sixty day starter period. I can share some data that we've got from early trials. We've been doing it in Oklahoma, the Texas Panhandle where obviously there's a lot of cattle being fed, and then East Texas. So Oklahoma, where we did a turbo boost pen versus control, five point two percent treat rate on turbo boost versus fifteen point two on control. And a two point two pound daily gain versus a one point eight eight on the control, so a point three two pound difference there. Texas Panhandle, seven percent treats versus fourteen, and retreats point nine five percent versus four, and then zero death loss versus five percent. So these are this is directionally what we're seeing. Early data, I get it, but directionally, it's it's what we expected. When we formulated the turbo boost program, I sat down with smart minds in the industry, PhD nutritionists. I said to them, I want new sheriff in town, both barrels blazing, everything you know how to fight off disease challenges naturally without relying on antibiotics. And half of them laughed at me. The quest goes on to figure out you can fight diseases off by having a strong immune system, one, but by having an immune response mechanism, two. And so in East Texas, the trial there, treatment's down thirty percent, retreat's down thirty percent, and weight gain at two point one pounds on the turbo boost program versus one point six in the control. So there we have a half a pound daily gain. And so it's not all about daily gain, but ultimately, that's what you get paid for in the feed yard. And, I'll loop in doctor Ryan Rathman from Texas Tech where he talks about energy redirection. If you have a really sound, strong immune system, Terrill, less of the energy in that diet will go towards fueling that immune system and more will go to weight gain. I mean, it makes sense. So his thing is, you know, health equals weight gain. And so that's the way we're approaching it. You know, you've been on the road a lot longer than me and I respect your seniority in this space. From what I've said and from some early data, how is that gonna be received by these folks that are starting calves? I'm not the data nerd that you are and I say nerd in He's calling me a nerd. Yeah. Say that in a very respectful way. But but I do know twenty some years ago, I looked at some data on first treat versus second treat and at first treat and I I wouldn't want anybody to quote me, but I I know the the statistics are staggering. First treat on an animal for respiratory, specifically respiratory, which that's ninety five percent of the problems that you have Yes, sir. From the stress. At first treat, that animal has a twenty percent chance of being select of of downgrading from their genetic potential of a prime or choice carcass to a select animal. If you go one step further and you retreat that same animal, he has a higher than eighty percent chance of going from a prime or choice animal down to a select or a no roll type animal. So that in itself, just the meat quality aspect of eliminating those treats and the economic effect of that is just huge. Do you couple that then with today's animal and you take the average five weight calf that's worth somewhere around five dollars a pound and you're and and if you're restricting his gain in that starting phase, that first forty five to sixty days by by any percentage monetarily, that stacks up really, really fast. So anything that you can do to attain the the goals that you just just stated in in your very limited trials because I know they're limited. They're you're just starting. Right. And so anything that we can do to to to get the number of first treats and and those retreats down, think, not only from a carcass quality standpoint, but also from a getting them cattle to the bunk and getting them up and rolling and not taking away from the genetic potential of those animals to gain and convert. It's a no brainer. You've referred to genetic potential a few times and you know, the industry as an industry, we're very forward thinking, progressive looking at genetics. But along the way, there's all these roadblocks, hurdles you might say, that prevent a calf from reaching its true genetic potential. That's kind of sad but it's real. And so when you speak about those ones getting kicked out into select, the whole meat the beef industry is incentivized and graded on marbling. Am I correct? That's the definition of select choice prime. Yeah. That's how we measure success in beef production Right. Is, you know, not only monetarily, that's ultimately, what we're trying to to attain. So anything that we can do to let them maximize their genetic potential just just adds value to your operation. Absolutely. So to just dovetail off of that, what Texas Tech said was that when they did these meat quality studies, feedlot animal that had been subject to sickness and had immune challenges versus a healthy calf that had a really healthy immune system, same diet, same genetics, that had much better marbling in the one with the healthy immune system. Now that's a no brainer, might say. But I would say, guys, it's it's the same diet. We've just done a better job of redirecting that energy to where it'll actually pay versus having energy just fueling your immune system that's trying to cope with these disease challenges. So it all comes down to this one big measurable, and that's weight gain, but then quality in terms of, you know, what you're incentivized for in in your production. We've talked about the starting. We've talked about meat quality. You've mentioned getting them up to the bunk faster. That's a a huge thing with our program is getting them we have a old we had an old nutritionist that said for years, for feedlot cattle, healthy, hungry, up at the bunk. He said, I don't care what the program is. I want healthy, hungry, up at the bunk. So that's what we built the Turbo Boost program around, driving those three levers. But glad for any other insights into this this space that we're talking about. Well, think most notably just just in our in our local business here with, you know, limited use of the turbo boost paste, but last fall on some high risk type calves. And we had one local, darter backgrounder yard here, using the paste. His comment was, you know, normally his cattle, upon initial pull, he would be in the quote unquote sick pen, for anywhere from two to seven days. And with the advent of the turbo boost paste, he was returning a lot of cattle after first treat back to the home pen within two days. Wow. That to me said it all and and, you know, he was he was a believer right up front just for that simple reason. Yeah. I think this recurring theme we keep hearing and you've alluded to it is the number of retreats. Because when you get that second you got a doctor for the second time, yeah, you're getting a big knock as far as your grading. But sometimes those end up being chronic in the sick pen and they don't go nowhere. If they die, it's hard to make money on a dead calf. If they're flat lining, well, it's hard to make money on a calf that's not gaining. So this is getting that immune system dialed in and then having that immune response. We're not going to say there's no stress or no challenges. There's weather going like this, you might have other stress factors. What we're trying to do is build into that calf the ability to deal with stress and respond. And I call it that immune response activation. It's like a if you think of a military base, you know, an immune system is like a military base. It's equipped, it's ready, it's armed, it's got, trained troops. But as soon as there's a threat, that military base goes into high alert. And that's like the on switch on the immune system in a calf. And that's what we're working so hard, with our technology, all natural technology, to equip that calf with the ability to fight off those disease challenges from the inside out with its own immune response. You know, I'm not privy to the ingredients that are in the turbo boost but I think one of the one of the key features is that appetite stimulant. Yes, sir. Because if you keep that belly of that calf full, happier he is, the less stress you put on him. The, you know, the nutrition is there and it's readily available and that keeps that immune system tuned for that small amount of time. I think that's a huge benefit and and that's the comments that we've had in again in the limited use that we've used that the comments from anybody that's used it is those calves are sucking right to the bunk. They're staying hydrated. And I think that that's one of the keys that is being attained. That's great. I appreciate the feedback. As we wrap up, any thoughts on the the industry, the optimism, potential risks? If there was ever a time, I guess, to get out of your box and try something new, this might be the best time to do it in my mind because look at the dollars you got to work with. When you got a the average five weight calf bringing anywhere from twenty five hundred to twenty seven hundred dollars a head, You got a lot of these big calves dollar and up anywhere from twenty seven and a half to twenty nine hundred dollars a head. There's a little extra jingle left in the pocket. The ranchers are being rewarded right now. So if there was ever a time to step out of your box and try something new, I think this is this might be the time. To maintain the health of that animal is key in in the success of your operation. Absolutely. Well, Terrill, I stand in awe of ranchers and folks like you that are stewards of the land. And I think we need to encourage this spirit of stewardship of our extra jingle. Everybody, we're thrilled and and ranchers deserve it, but I think we need to be also wise stewards of that extra jingle. My my input on that would be look at it so in a way that you you use your money to make money. Don't sometimes if you're having a really good year, you can almost get lax in your in your how you manage that. And if we can use that to make wise decisions for the future, I think that's a a great whether that's genetics or whether it's stepping out of the box on other nutrition or, you know, upgrading the the carrying capacity of your ranch or the way you manage it. Well, that concludes us, on today's That Ranching podcast. Thanks for joining us, and we will see you next Thursday.

I am the same guy with the same passion and the same care and the same heart. Welcome back to that ranching podcast where we address real topics around the kitchen table and further to discuss the comments, the naysayers that we appreciate on social media. So another really common question that we get is around price. So I see one day Anita said, it's worth the same as other companies, two hundred and twenty five dollars and a bit more, not six hundred dollars. It sounds like she might have been from Canada. Yeah. That's correct. Not by the words she used, but just by the price she quoted. So thanks for that input. Duane, what would you say to that? Jeez. Giving me all the tough ones here today. Well, I I can start it off. No. Fair enough, Anita. When I go to the local Ford dealership and I need to buy a pickup for a a new hire, let's say a new sales guy, you know what my first question is? And it's stupid, but it is. It's like, how much is that one over there? And what about that one? And the the Ford salesman, who I know quite well, he looks at me and he says, well, first of all, I mean, I can give you the prices, but what are you trying to get done? Because that one will do x and y and that one will do ten times that. The common denominator is price, so they're like, they start comparing price versus price, which is very fair. What I would like to educate folks on is it's more about what you're trying to get done and then looking at your cost per head per day. With Riomax, have a very concentrated product that they don't need to eat very much a day, one eighth to one third of a pound. And so the cost per head per day is usually the same or less than the El Chipo tubs. And so we just wanna educate folks what are you trying to get done? Like, what's the result of this product? And then what is the cost per day? But that's probably I'm probably off the rails. No. I I was actually the cost per head per day was the first thing where my head goes is upfront cost is one thing. What does it actually cost you? You know, Riomax is a a lot more concentrated. So when you say cost per head per day, cows are gonna eat less of the tub. So a two hundred and thirty five dollar tub, if they eat four of them to one Riomax tub, you know, you're spending just about a thousand dollars in the same time you're spending six hundred and thirty five here up in Canada or, you know, four ninety five here in the US. What I would say further to that, like you said, Trevor, is the results. So okay. So we we look at it and there there's definitely times when we're by far cheaper on a per head per day basis, so it's an absolute no brainer to switch to Riomax. Then there's times when we might be even on a cost per head per day, we might be double the cost of your loose mineral program. In which case, we need to say, alright, if we're gonna do Riomax and it's gonna cost me double, I'm gonna be investing, you know, maybe it's fifty dollars ahead or whatever that cost is over this time period. Now, what am I looking to get done for that extra investment? We may need to look. What what are you currently doing? What results are you currently getting? And if you're gonna invest the six hundred and thirty five dollars in a Riomax tub, what what are you getting that isn't in what you're currently doing? Because there there's reasons why we we cost what we do, and I Trevor, you could say this as the owner, but if we could make a tub for two hundred and thirty five bucks that would do the same thing that the Riomax formula currently does. We'd probably have two hundred semis backed up over here instead of twenty. But my the the point is we agree and are sympathetic that these are very reasonable questions because people do judge things upfront on price. How much is that one? How much is that one? Back to the Ford dealership, imagine if I'm trying to pull a gooseneck trailer, I go there and I say, what's your cheapest pickup? And he says, these Ford Rangers are super reasonable. He's, what are you thinking, just run the kids to school every day and have a weekend truck? I'm like, no, I'm pulling a gooseneck with this thing and he's like, okay, you're gonna need to think of a f three fifty. We wanna get people what they need to get the job done and don't forget to do the due diligence on your cost per head per day. Awesome. So another question we get is folks saying that they never got back to me. I had over consumption or I had some issue, and I feel like they didn't hold up their end of the bargain. As a family business, that is definitely not the experience we want for any any producer. I think it would be fair to say, Trevor, if we agree with this statement, but as a as a company We usually agree, but not always. We've had a fair bit of growth here over the last few years, and we're very thankful for it. A lot of cows joining the Riomax herd, a lot of new dealers joining Riomax, and it's been an awesome journey. With that comes some growth challenges. So when there is situations where, hey, you know, you'd reached out and someone hadn't got back to you, we very much apologize for that. The same token, we there is situations that it does stuff falls through the cracks. So what we would ask is if that's happened to you, please get in touch. You know, if if it if we see something on Facebook, we do our darndest to reach back out. Otherwise, if you shoot us a text, give us a call. You can Google it. Just call our main number. One of the girls will answer and send you over to one of our territory managers or business development guys, resolve twenty four, anyone that's available there. I think it's an absolute priority that if you have a problem or a challenge and you've been a Riomax customer or a Rhyzogreen customer, that we get that that addressed. Would you say? Yeah. Again, I'd say I'm sorry, and it's definitely not the experience that we wish for you, and, we take it seriously. So like Twain said, get in touch. We wanna take care of you. Just another thing to note on that is our dealers, our dealer network, we very much value them and and they are ranchers first, you know. So for for some of these guys, especially in remote areas or poor reception areas and, you know, let's say we're in weaning season or maybe calve the heart of calving. There may be times when there's a couple weeks where that dealer is flat out from dawn till dusk doing what they do on their ranch. And we don't blame them for that. We knew that when we got them started as a dealer. But if there is a challenge where you're not able to get a hold of your dealer or you, you know, maybe that just hasn't the message hasn't got through and back to us. It's not backdooring the dealer to just pick up the phone and give us a call as a company and say, you know, here's my dealer, here's who I work with and this is what I'm running into. We work very closely with our dealers to help service their customers as well. Absolutely. Just reach out to us directly if there's any challenges there. We wanna make sure we get you taken care of, be it through the dealer or just us directly as a company. You're still under them as a as a customer, but we wanna make sure you you have a good experience regardless of of how you're currently getting your product. I will say that and it's not an excuse, but with rapid growth because of the results that guys are seeing, there is growing pains. There is, you know, hiring good people, and I was hearing of a no fence collar company that was growing so fast that they they just simply couldn't hire people fast enough. So is that a bad company? Probably not because something they're doing is working, but damn it, can they hire faster? I very much sympathize with your pain if that's how you're feeling, and I assure you that we will take care of you. And if you have fallen through the cracks, that is not acceptable in our books, and we apologize and wanna make that right with you. Just on that, Trevor, with the hiring talk is as a company, we also do we we wanna make sure we have good people that can answer your questions and do a good job looking after you. So to be quite frank at Riomax, we don't hire anyone and everyone. If we are hiring someone, it we do take a lot of time to put in training to make sure that they're, you know, they're servicing the the industry how we want them to be servicing them. So, you know, if we get someone that comes on board it, it may take six months to a year to fully train someone into their role at a Riomax. And so I'm not saying that as an excuse or, you know, even apologizing for it. It's just more of the facts of it is as we expand and as we grow, we're gonna continue to to do what we can to make sure we're servicing all of the western half of US and Canada. There's challenges that come along with it and we're doing our darndest. Thinking back a quarter of a century ago, which seems like a while, I was a one man band in a one car garage driving an old Buick LeSabre. And at that point, I could control everything our company did because there was only one touch point. Okay? I am the same guy with the same passion and the same care and the same heart, and yes, we've grown, like I said, because of the results, folks. See? And we will strive, might and main, to do the right thing by the people we serve. And if we've let you down or if you feel let down, I am sorry. We wanna, work with you to resolve that, and, please, reach out to us. So I think that wraps us up for this episode of That Ranching podcast. We will see you next week.

There's customers that go so far as to ask us to pay him five thousand dollars to not badmouth us on social media. Welcome back to that ranching podcast. We're thrilled to have you. This is the next episode of the naysayers on social media and how we respond to that. Darren says, I heard they're so good they quit eating grass and hay altogether, lol. I haven't tried them. I wanted to, but I know a couple guys that did and didn't see a difference. Now firstly, when we're hearing that feedback, I would challenge were we measuring the results? Some of the time what we hear is if they didn't do it for long enough or it wasn't in a situation where they could actually measure that performance, it is tough to see results because the cows didn't have enough time to acclimate to it or there was no comparison to know what what the results were. And an example of that, a guy using Rhyzogreen. We have plenty of these pictures where you can see the side by side difference, and guy saying, you know what, I can't see from the road the visual difference, and so I feel like it didn't work. I'm okay with that, but what we go and do or encourage him to do is cut a sample, you know, like a square foot of plants from the treated and then plants from the control, this is alfalfa, and invariably what you see is you have less atrophy on the rhizogreen, in other words, you have more leaf growth closer to the ground and less yellowing of that stem, and that equals tons. Right? But if you're not weighing it or you're not measuring it, you're just eyeballing it, I get it. It might look like there's no difference, but that's an example of if you don't measure it, you won't know how much it helped. It's like me complaining back to the Ford dealership that this was supposed to see increase in fuel efficiency on this new EcoBoost, and he says, so have you been measuring? And I'm like, no. No. That's that's a dumb example, but What what I will say when we did a study a few years back on our customers, we asked for feedback on if they felt like Riomax paid for itself in their operation, and eight out of ten ranchers said it paid for itself. One and a half said not sure yet, still deciding, and then half a rancher or five percent said no. And I think what that highlights there is, does it work for everyone or with the environmental changes that happen year on year with ranchers? There's scenarios absolutely where something didn't go quite as planned. I think that would be stupid if we wouldn't say that that, you know, there's times when, like we said in an earlier episode, the science works. We know when we're feeding the rumen, the microbes inside the rumen of a cow, we're gonna have an impact. Now, we've had it year over year where if someone's comparing to last year and there's a drastic change in the forage quality or, you know, maybe they got rain one year and didn't get rain the next. There there's things that change that are gonna drive the cows needs up and down and that can vary results quite drastically. So those are scenarios where there is times ranchers, you know, they maybe use the product. And if we're comparing to last year, they ate the same amount of feed. But if we did a feed test on the actual grass, the forage quality this year is that much less or poor quality than the year prior. So there there's environmental factors, I think, that play a massive role. Now is every Riomax customer across all of US and Canada one hundred and twelve percent happy with the Riomax program? I don't think that'd be a fair thing to state. No. I mean, we've got mother nature and a lot of variables, but that's not an excuse, that's a reality. And to anyone that feels like they haven't been taken care of, I apologize. That's not what I want for you. What I want for you is that we can work with you to help resolve the issue, and if it comes to a point where we can't resolve it and you don't want in and and you've got your reasons, we would we would shake hands and and leave like gentlemen, you know? But to Darren was it Darren's question? Yes. And he he said maybe a bit of tongue in cheek, but I appreciate the the humor and the challenge, Darren. Can I feed my cows nothing? You know, get by with no grass or hay? Something like that. The answer is no. If you follow the marketing, you'll hear that usually it's between that fifteen and thirty percent hay or forage savings or extending your pastures by the same fifteen or thirty percent. So we are not claiming to eliminate hay or or grass from the diet. That is still your global nutrition. And like Twain said, when you have global nutrition declining, it it will need to be compensated with something. So we're not by any means saying that you can get by without global nutrition. Riomax is a supplement and that means supplement. Fifteen to thirty percent is what we typically see. We have seen higher, but that's the the numbers we see. Definitely not a hundred percent. I was just gonna add. So now if if you are in the category, maybe you've you've tried Riomax, you didn't feel like you saw the result you're looking for, absolutely. Let's let's talk about it. I would say from a Resolve twenty four standpoint, which is our customer service team, is we wanna be in touch with you. And what we would ask, and I'm just gonna put this out there, is there may be things that we ask you to do or some corrections to make to the program. Know, if the forage qualities change drastically or something that our team can see that would make Riomax fit better in your situation or actually just help your herd as an overall, we ask you to take those recommendations seriously. We work with a lot of third party people looking at liver biopsies from cows. We look at a lot of different things. So when we have a problem, we take it seriously. But then when we make recommendations, we ask for that to be followed. We've we've had it in recent times where there's customers that we've had one or two that I can think of that had challenges and then wouldn't take the recommendations of our team. So in turn, we didn't have the results we were looking for in the Riomax program. And then we've get got some negative feedback on that and we had one go so far as to ask us to pay him five thousand dollars to not badmouth us on social media, which I can say this with absolute conviction and assurance as a family business and knowing what Riomax stands for. We are absolutely not going to pay someone money to not talk about us. Now, if there's a legitimate challenge or we've had overconsumption or something that we can go back to the Riomax product and say, hey, we legitimately owe this person money for something that actually happened in their situation. A hundred percent, I think, Trevor, you'd back this up. We we're not afraid to to make things right if that's what it comes down to. And I've personally, if we've had we've had over consumption cases where customers on the program, they had over consumption, they quit. I've seen Trevor go take them a check for that over consumption amount, not expecting their business back just to make it right. I'm not saying that to flatter you, that's just that's the kind of company we are. But when we're in the situation where someone's almost trying to hold us over the barrel and say, hey, if you don't pay me money, this is we're not gonna stand for that. Yeah. Don't treat us like a corporate giant. We're a family business, we have a heart, we care, and we want to work with everybody, do the best we can, like Twain said, if there's a problem that you feel has not been resolved, reach out. I will say because of our growth, because of the results we see, it does bring out some heel biting that we never saw before, you know, when we were a tenth of this size, no one said a boo squeak. And just because we're growing, because of the impact we're making on men and women that we serve and we appreciate and we we eat, sleep, and breathe, you know, the needs of these beloved people, don't knock us for that. So that wraps us up for this week of That Ranching podcast. We'll see you next week.

I don't know if people feel shortchanged every time they chew on a KFC drumstick. Colonel Sanders back in the day probably said, look, folks, let's just keep this one in the family. Welcome to That Ranching Podcast. Thanks for joining us around this kitchen table where we discuss things that matter to men and women in ranching. What we're gonna discuss today is some of the naysayers on social media and answering some of their challenges which may or may not be reasonable fair challenges. And by the way, anyone that's contributed on social media, we seek to respond and to do it in a fair spirit. We're not here to argue with anybody or have a a fight, you know, on on Facebook, so to speak. So there is times when we will ask people to take it offline. We're not we're not trying to hide anything. We're more trying to have a a conversation that sometimes just isn't best to be done in public. And and I think most of these questions are legitimate. They're naysayers, but they're still legitimate, and we want to address those. For those that are just trying to pick a fight or whatever online, we're not a corporate company, so we're a family business, so please don't. But Marcus, what are we getting for some of the feedback? Alright. So I see this one a fair bit, but mister Schmidt says, pretty hard to buy a product if they don't list their ingredients. What do you say to that? Reach out. We definitely we have a request to tag form on the website. Now the one thing we used to actually have the tag on the website. This would have been several years back, if I remember right, Trevor. And the one thing we run into a fair bit, people tend to misread tags or potentially they've been trained how to read a tag maybe a little bit differently than And our product is so fundamentally different that it's like asking to see a Tesla and looking in the hood to check the engine out and saying, well, it doesn't have a motor. We can share the ingredient list with with you, but what what what really needs to come first, I think, and correct me if if I'm if you think differently, Duane, but is a understanding of how fundamentally different Riomax is? Because just a tag will likely con confuse you. A big example on that Trevor is actually the the protein level on the tag. Yeah. So a lot of people when they're looking at a protein tub, their first thing is, well, what's the protein tub? As you would. As you do. As as you would. Now with Nutrizorb, our digestive pack with over twenty digestive ingredients, what we're doing is helping that cow pull more protein and more energy out of her feed. And build microbial protein. Hundred percent. But doesn't come on any put that on a tag. So and I hope it doesn't come across as trying to deceive anybody or trick them because they don't know what they're buying. Absolutely. If you're looking at buying Riomax and you wanna see a tag before you purchase the product, fair enough. We would just ask that you reach out to us directly as a company. We'll get you that tag sent over, and one of the guys would likely give you a shout just to address and go through the tag with you to make sure that when you're looking at it, you know what you're looking at and you can see what you're buying. And we've done it multiple times, but even having someone send over what they're currently using and we can pull up a bit of a tag comparison for you so you can see, hey, you know, for anyone that doesn't know, the retail price of Riomax is four hundred and ninety five bucks for a two hundred and fifty pound tub. So we're gonna be triple what a normal tub is. If you're looking to spend that kind of money, probably want to know what you're buying. Can I tell a story? Yeah. Absolutely. This is probably fifteen years ago in Alberta. A good customer called me up and he says, I've taken your tag and I've shared it with my nutritionist, and he's plugged it into his software, it's telling me that my cows are losing x amount of body condition by the day. And I said, that's terrible, like I'm very sympathetic, I take that seriously. Tell me, what are the cows looking like? You know, I'm just, in my mind, I'm just thinking of these skeletons, you know, out in the middle of a Chinook. And he's like, well that's the crazy thing, he said, the cows are fat if anything. And I said, mister customer, either you believe your nutritionist or you believe the cows, but in this case, you can't believe both. And that's just an example, nothing against nutritionists, nothing against the feed program, but it was confusing because they were not factoring in the foundational difference of Riomax. Hence, why we don't just frisbee out tags to everybody right away because there's a few steps before that. Trust that makes sense. Just to follow that on real quick, the other part that people are curious about is the Nutrizorb is like, hey, if they won't tell me what all goes into this thing, how do I really know what's going into my cows? Makes me think of why Coca Cola hasn't publicly listed their recipe, but I'd be glad to know what your thoughts are on the NutriSorb side of things. I think that's a good a good challenge, honestly. There's five main components that make up NutriSorb. Yeast, prebiotics, probiotics, fungi fuel Enzymes. Enzymes. Thank you, Trevor. For the person that's wondering what all is in that, I mean, there's twenty different components and and you've well listed out the five categories or classes. I suppose sometimes people are wondering, does it have a drug or ionophore or a chemical or a coccidiostat or does it have something in there that I'm already doing or or something that will kick me out of an all natural program. So I would say upfront, Nutrizorb has been all natural long before all natural was cool. All of those ingredients that Twain listed off, which serve to squeeze more out of the diet and to extract more nutrients out, not just protein energy, but all your minerals, trace minerals, vitamins that are naturally occurring in your forages. Nutrizorb will extract more out of everything. So very much a natural product. Back to the Coca Cola example, Marcus, and there'd be dozens of other examples where in this case, our family business protects the recipe. As you can understand, we're probably not gonna put our intellectual property up on a billboard that we've spent almost a quarter of a century building. KFC, they have their proprietary recipe for their chicken which has been protected for many years. I don't know if people feel shortchanged every time they chew on a KFC drumstick that they didn't know exactly what was in there but old colonel Sanders back in the day probably said, look folks, let's just keep this one in the family because we don't want the chicken shop down the road doing the same thing. We're just a family just making sure that the customer is at the center of everything we do, and then, yeah, we're probably not gonna just tell the world the secrets of a family recipe, much the same as grandma didn't wanna share her brownie recipe because it was hers. The other question that I see coming in a fair bit, mister Frattinger is saying, someone told me they're made in the same place as one of the other brands, just different label, possibly just good marketing. So I think there's two questions to that is same place, different label, and the other part is these repeated claims about it just being good marketing. Those are both good. I appreciate people like Trevor had said earlier, there's some fair challenges out there. Just to address the the one about the different, you know, same product, different label. If you've heard that they've they're made in the same plant You're right. You're you're right. Yeah. Thanks, Trevor. So as a as a company, we do have plants that finish our tubs for us. And Trevor, you could maybe go into this a little bit more, but I'll just do a quick high level. Yeah. Here at in Redwood Falls, Minnesota, we premix Down the road here. And put together all our main components, really the guts of Nutrizorb and Esqort, the the main things that go into the Riomax formulas that really set us apart from everything else out there. That is all premixed in house here, and we ship out those premixes to plants around the country that then produce tubs for us. So yes, produced in the same plant. No, not the same tub with a different label. I've had it for years where people said, if it comes out of x y z plant and we use multiple plants around the country, it's probably the same thing. The only thing that is the same would be the molasses that is nothing but a carrier to the ingredients that deliver the mode of action. But a very fair challenge. So is it just marketing? We believe in marketing as a tool to speak to the wonderful people we serve and get the message out there. We wanna help others you know, with seven hundred and fifty thousand mother cows on the program and and folks seeing this hay savings, forage savings, weaning weights, conception rates. We wanna just help others as we've helped them. People wanna be part of a winning brand, so we have people getting on video for us. People are enjoying the journey and they wanna do good by their neighbors and friends within within the ranching industry. So I don't really talk call it marketing so much as is spreading a good message that can help other folks. If I if I could just jump in here, couple things is one is you've probably seen some of our customer testimonials. There are ranchers that there's there is some of our dealers, to be totally transparent that shoot videos for us as well that talk about what they've seen in their operations. Which stay ranchers at heart? Again, they're they're ranchers. They're ranchers first and foremost. You know, our dealers are ranchers that then turned into Riomax dealers. In many cases, they've grown up since they were little in that area, and they're not gonna put their reputation on the line to sell a couple tubs. That I can assure you. You know, the the ranchers, dealers we work with. But then in the main, the videos we get are from ranchers that are just Riomax customers. They have no stake in it. I can assure you they like getting on camera about as much as Trevor and I do or possibly less. Which is not a lot. But Marcus, you're, you know, you're in charge of shooting a lot of these videos. How much do we normally pay people per episode? Absolutely zero. Sometimes we've had requests for payment or a certain amount of swag or something, and I will not not that I don't think it's worth it for their help, but I will decline it because I don't want them ever being bribed or incentivized to share the message. I want it to be whatever they honestly think, whatever they honestly feel, and only that. So Marcus, then if if there's no payment, no swag, no bribery, what is motivating these people to get out of their comfort zone like we are right now and do what they do on camera? I think it's on the basis of helping other ranchers. Like, most of who's seeing these videos and and who's impacted by them is local ranchers that say, hey, that guy's not that far down the road, he runs a similar type of operation, and he's seeing these results. And so I think they feel motivated to if they found a good thing that's actually adding performance, putting dollars on the bottom line for their operation, enabling them to grow, they feel like it's the least they could do to help spread that message and help their fellow ranchers. What does that look like? Like, if you're gonna go ask someone, pretend I'm Rancher Joe, how do you reach out to me and ask me to shoot a Hey, Rancher Joe. Would you ever be willing to share what you've seen on the tubs to help out fellow ranchers? That simple. People just respond to that. Yeah. Sometimes it's a little back and forth of what it means to actually get on camera and that it's Well, might say, why? I ain't a real good talker. You know? I'm not I'm not no good at speeches. And I think those are some of the ranchers we've got the best content with. We don't need no smooth talkers, we just need real people that are part of this journey and they wanna help their fellow rancher. That is the genius to this and to all, I think there's well over four hundred just on our YouTube channel as as we speak, and then, you know, on other social platforms and to me it's not a marketing campaign, it's a movement. They're winning on their ranches in terms of, you know, actual tangible measurements like financial ROI, return on investment, and they just want to help others win. I think ranchers are a very special breed, salt of the earth, and so willing to help the neighbor with branding, help the neighbor at weaning time, help the neighbor if there's a fire or a sickness and it's that same thread that runs through, they they have good results. I'm not saying we're the only tub on the market. I'm not saying we're the only family business in the industry, but they would just wanna spread that word. They're like, this is a winning brand. I'm winning. You know? Let's be part of the journey. Thanks again for joining us on That Ranching podcast. We'll see you next week.

Over the years, a lot of guys have said, you gotta have clinical or third party data for me to believe you. Twenty twenty four did studies across Idaho, Oregon, Oklahoma, Texas, and Washington states. Twenty four, twenty five, Nebraska and Arizona in twenty twenty five in Texas, and then finally, it's in Nebraska on corn silage. I'm saying, well, we kinda knew that already, but thanks. Welcome back to that ranching podcast. We get people that say your data's anecdotal. Where's the concrete concrete proof in what what you're doing? Be it rhizogreen or the tubs, the paste. They wanna know what what the concrete proof is. So Trevor, what would you say on on that when people are saying all our stuff's anecdotal? I have mixed emotions on that. Gotta understand where people are coming from. I I think they've got reason to be skeptical because they've got fed a lot of claims. Like, I'm sympathetic with why they say that. I would say that what is the definition of anecdotal? Because if you got seven hundred and fifty thousand mama cows on the program, these are guys that have been in the industry for twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty years, and they're making a conscious decision to use Riomax. I don't know. What's the definition of anecdotal to start with? When I hear anecdotal is people saying, oh, it's just hearsay or it's just, you know, someone that it's feedback that isn't very concrete. You know? And and when we're talking to producers, and we're getting videos from guys or feedback from guys, we had had one this morning actually out in Montana. Producer that he'd sent in those pictures to Rodney on the on the rhyzogreen. And on his alfalfa, you know, he'd he'd done a side by side comparison. He was at three and a half ton to the acre on the treated ground with rhyzogreen and three ton to the acre on the untreated. And pictures. Pictures to show the the leaves. With less atrophy. Yep. And in his case, as a producer, what he was saying is normally has to buy about eight hundred ton of feed. And this year, with the way things are looking, if he can get that half a ton to the acre across all his cuttings, he was gonna be at about an extra seven hundred and fifty ton of production. Yeah. And so we're talking large scale production here, and that was gonna eliminate pretty much eliminate his need to buy feed this year. That to me is not anecdotal because he's got he's got his own comparison Half a pivot versus the other half the pivot. He's got the tonnage. He's got the pictures. You can see where the leaves go almost all the way to the ground on the treated versus the other. That is not anecdote. I think anecdotal is like, I I feel it was better. I think it was better. And it's like, how can you trust that? Right? It it's just someone's opinion. But I would say what backs up a lot of what we do in our numbers, both on rhizogreen and Riomax, is these trials where guys have done a side by side comparison, or they're like a sixty year old rancher, and he's comparing what he's seeing this year to historical average or historical data, not just like last year or one good year or one bad year, but, like, for his lifetime. And he's like, I've never seen calves wean this way, or I've never seen cows graze this part of the pasture ever. That to me takes it from anecdotal to, okay. We've got some concrete comparisons. Yeah. I I would hundred percent agree. And these are these are ranchers that they don't really stand anything to gain from feeding anyone a line of BS to be quite frank, you know. They're they're just guys helping each other and I think we see it be it, you know, with the products we offer at Riomax or otherwise is ranchers do rely very much on other ranchers experience with different products and different, you know, machinery and all sorts of different things. They learn off of each other. You know, if one guy's doing something that works pretty quick, see a lot of other guys looking at that thing and wondering how they can implement it in their operation. I think it's important in ag that that we do rely on each other to some degree because, you know, when when a guy can say, here's what I'm seeing, here's what I've done, you can kind of base your judgment or decision off of that a lot more, I think. What gives our customers confidence is that when we're seeing these trends, you know, let's say hay savings or increased production on Rhyzogreen or weaning weights on Riomax, etcetera, when they're seeing these trends and it's consistent from the Panhandle of Texas to Missouri to Alberta to the Rocky Mountains in Montana and Colorado. I mean, these are vastly different grass types, different soil types, even different breeds of cattle, different elevation, different rainfall. There's a lot of different things there. When we see these consistent trends on the levers that we we can impact, such as conception rates, weight gain on calves, hay and forage savings, stretching your pastures, herd health, increased production and tonnage on the rhizogreen side. It's that consistency that that drives the validity. Yeah. But then, I guess, Duane, I I got a a bit of a pet peeve. Over the years, a lot of guys have said, you know, you you gotta have clinical or third party or university data for me to believe you because you're just a family business, how would I believe you? And and I'm like, well, this is our data, like, on Rhyzogreen, sixty six on farm trials. Ninety plus percent win rate. Yep. Yeah. Which I'll I've some of the big corporates in the seed industry talk about sixty to seventy being, you know, world class. So at ninety percent, we think, like, this is awesome. But then guys are saying, we we need third party validation. So we went ahead and and did it starting in twenty four and twenty five, and it's continuing. They don't do that for free, in case anyone's wondering. Well, that's where my pet peeve comes in. We get all this work done, and it comes back and it validates what we already knew. And I'm like, why do we have to pay for that? Because we already knew that. I was just gonna jump in real quick. So I wanna know what do you guys actually have that is proven in the lab that is scientific that is hard? So we've got two sets. One would be on the Riomax. One would be on the Rhyzogreen. We've done three different studies on manure and measuring the leftovers in the manure on Riomax cows versus control cows. That study was done in twenty twenty two. We did three separate studies measuring the leftover for undigested fibers leftovers on Riomax. The average across those three studies was fifty one percent less leftovers. And then you referred to mineral. People often wonder how quick can you get that mineral level up. You know, they know we have esqort, is a hundred percent rumen bypass or protected trace minerals, your key trace minerals. And so we did a study there doing liver biopsies, which is the truest measurement of the mineral status in a cow. This was done in twenty twenty one. Within forty two days, the copper level in the Riomax cows increased a hundred and twenty eight percent. One other study that I'd like to share. In twenty fourteen, we worked with the University of Minnesota to determine the effect we had on the TDN or total digestible nutrients in a cow's diet based on the use of NutriSorb. They did studies on grain and forage. They saw an average of three percent increase in the TDN, which is huge. The way the professor communicated to us, doctor Alfredo DiConstanzo, he said, it makes a poor quality hay function like a mediocre quality hay, and it makes a mediocre quality hay function like a high quality hay. Marcus, that's some, response to the the you know, looking for actual scientific evidence, and, and and that journey continues. We're not gonna stop doing these kind of studies, but we're also not gonna stop the flow of all these pictures we get and testimonials and feedback where, you know, Twain mentioned earlier, these guys that get on video have no incentive to do this besides that they're part of a winning brand. They wanna help their neighbors win. Winning begets winning, and these guys are just part of that journey. And, of course, we've been feeding microbes in the rumen of a cow since two thousand six. We've been sharpening the saw all along, and today, we have over twenty different digestion ingredients in that NutriSorb. So University of Minnesota listening to us, they're probably gonna say it's time for another study. Just some other concrete third party validation studies on Rhyzogreen. Twenty twenty four, Agrellas did studies across Idaho, Oregon, Oklahoma, Texas, and Washington states. Saw an average increase in production on alfalfa of twenty five percent. Twenty four twenty five, AgriThorb, another third party verification body did studies in Nebraska and Arizona and saw a thirteen point nine percent increase in production on alfalfa. Agrellis, in twenty twenty five in Texas did a study for us and saw a fourteen and a half percent increase in production on alfalfa. And then finally, Agrellis did another study for us in Nebraska on corn silage and saw a twenty four percent increase in feed value. We're not talking quantity now. We're talking quality. So there's a a snapshot. There's more coming of concrete third party validation that I'm saying, well, we kinda knew that already, but thanks. And another story, is a guy I was talking to. This is years ago, and I said there's been a trial, know, university trial, and it shows this and this and this. And he said, I really don't care what was done in a little sterile lab in Minnesota. I don't care. He said, what I care about is real world results where the wind is blowing and the snow is coming sideways and we're in high elevation. He said, I wanna know how your product works in the real world, not in a damn lab. Now I'm not saying labs or universities or third party validation is a bad thing, but I am saying we gotta keep balance because if all we had was sterile lab data, you know, probably ninety percent of our our customers wouldn't trust it, and I don't blame them. And and you you've probably if you've seen much on Riomax, you've you've probably seen some of our customer testimonials, and I think that's kind of the backbone of our our results, so to speak, is when when we can talk to a producer and say, k. What are you doing? You know? How is this working for you? What results are you seeing? And to take what you said earlier, across the country, we see with Riomax, we're helping pull more nutrients out of the feed. With Rhyzogreen, we're, you know, increasing the nutrient uptake by the plant. So decreasing feed consumption, increasing production across the board. But what that looks like in each region and in in each herd does vary. If you go up to the north country, north country being say Montana, they feed a lot of hay in the winter. And for them, if we talk about stretching feed or getting more out of that hay, that means decreasing feed consumption. Pretty obvious. So you know a guy that's feeding thirty five pounds of hay, now he's, you know, maybe feeding thirty pounds. So rancher in the North Country, he can relate to that and say, oh, so if I could save, you know, fifteen, thirty percent of my feed, here's what that would look like in my scenario. Now, if you take that down to a rancher in say Western Oklahoma or totally different story. Now, yes, we're still helping pull more out of that feed. The cows are able to get more protein, more energy out of what they're eating, so they don't need to eat as much. But in that case, that's gonna look like either decreasing the amount of grass they're consuming through the winter. So, you know, more stockpiled forage in a drought situation probably means don't have to sell as many cows. Or for a lot of them where they're caking, they're actually reducing the amount of cake they're putting out. If you turn around, took that story back north, that that would I mean, they'd appreciate it up in Montana, but not a lot of guys feed cake up in Montana. So there there's that context that So so the the guy in Texas says, don't talk to me because I don't feed hay. And the guy in Montana says, don't talk to me because I don't feed cake. But the principle and the mode of action and the science behind both of these scenarios is exactly the same. That was a bit of a roundabout way of saying, I think it's important that we, you know, hear from the producers across the country what they're seeing. So we're just gonna pause here. We have a definition of anecdotal coming in. Alright. So the the definition of anecdotal, it refers to information, evidence, or accounts based on personal experience, casual observations, or stories rather than on rigorous scientific research, statistics, or proven facts? Okay. What I would challenge myself as to to ensure that when there is a customer testimonial that it is rigorous and it is based on proven facts, not just, yeah, I think my cows look better, I think we saved hay, or I think there was more alfalfa per acre. You know, I'm a big stickler for pictures like this, side by side comparison. Here you see to the line where rhizogreen was applied, or like this. Here's a manure picture. You can see the, Riomax manure versus control. And I was talking to a guy that had challenged us about being too anecdotal. And when he started to see these manure pictures that we we get from our customers, which tells tells the customer what's going on in the rumen, he said, that's science that you can see. There's a lot to this. I appreciate a challenge from a customer like, wait. I think you guys are too anecdotal. So that we can make sure that it is more valid and proven and rigorous, and then at the same time, limit ourselves to doing all of our studies in a sterile white square box of a lab in Minnesota. Just on the the anecdotal side of things is one one thing we're very serious about as a company is when our customers are, you know, potential customers, someone's interested in the product or interested in Rhyzogreen, we strongly encourage doing your own trial of sorts. On the Rhyzogreen, just before we wrap up, if you look at this picture, it shows a guy in Nebraska that did what we call a tarp study. He laid a tarp down and then sprayed rhyzogreen over top. You can see where, rhyzogreen impacted the growth and where it did not. It's as simple as that. Well, I have guys and they say, well, hey. Listen. I'm not a trial farm, so I'm not gonna I'm not, you know, just putting two groups of cows, exact same cows in separate pastures and measuring it for a full year, which is understandable. But to some degree, when we're looking at starting on a I'll give you an example, just had a customer the other day, he runs about five hundred cows and he was looking at starting on Riomax. His father's a little skeptical, just kinda getting rolling and he was interested in trying it but not wanting to, you know, do everything. And I was like, perfect. If you're not gonna do the whole herd, they had, you know, they have some purebred cows and then they have a couple hundred head of commercial cows. They're gonna start with the purebred herd. So we got, I think about three hundred cows on Riomax currently. There's two hundred commercial cows that are gonna be kept separate and they're gonna be measuring those results, the feed consumption and tracking conception rates and those results. Now for them, they're able to do that fairly easily. For some people, you know, maybe they some of our guys will start with the first calf heifers or some of the guys will start with the majority of the herd and keep, you know, fifty running age cows separate. But some way to know that if you're gonna do Riomax for six months or a year, at the end of that six months to a year, what is success for you as a rancher? I think is extremely important because if you don't have a way to measure results on your operation, it doesn't have to be scientific. You know, we don't have to go into the lab and figure out what the rumen fluid's doing in your cows. It's more important though that you can say at the end, I was looking for this result and here's what I achieved with or with rhizogreen because if we don't have that, it makes it very tough for you as an operator to determine, hey, was this worth the financial investment, and is this something I wanna continue in my program? Is that fair enough? It it is fair. And if you if you understand where we're coming from, it's we are customer centric, rancher centric. That's at the center of everything we do. So as Twain said, we wanna help folks make that decision that is right for them, whatever that decision is for or against Riomax. And we have no problem with a guy saying, well, what did you say, Dwayne? A guy says, well, tell you what. I'll give you my worst group. Bring it on. Bring it on. Bring it on. Three words. Bring it on because we're so willing to showcase the science and the mode of action and the results. The point is we want folks in agriculture to be able to make those decisions that are right for them. And then it's not they got fed a line of BS or they got sold a product. It's like, no. They they did their due diligence, and they said this works for me. And then you do get guys that say, I've been studying you for two years. I've been watching you. I've heard all your data, and I wanna put everything on it. Yeah. That that's awesome. And but I would still say to that producer, alright. Hey. Six months time, what sort of measurables do you have to be able to say this is what Riomax is? Is such a good point. With our customers, we always, you know, what are you trying to get out of this deal? This is about driving results. Are you what are you after? Are you after hay savings specifically, or is it weaning weights you're trying to bump conception rates? What is the holistic picture? We gotta walk a mile in your moccasins and understanding what you're trying to get out of a deal. Even if you do the whole herd, we still wanna come back and say, how how are we tracking? Are we winning or we losing? Yep. And at at the end of the day, hopefully, we've conveyed through this is we do have concrete data that we've done with third party verification, University of Minnesota. And then we've also got what some people would call anecdotal. I I don't think a lot of what we see is anecdotal. I mean, is it's stories from guys, but it is facts. You know, when you're looking at pictures, you're looking at the numbers side by side comparisons. Those are very important to what we do, helping ranchers make good decisions for their operation based on what other ranchers are seeing in similar geographical areas. And then last but certainly not least is as you're looking to start on the or Rhyzogreen program is making sure that you have a way to do your own study of sorts. Be it, like we said, might be the whole herd, but you at least know the the results you're looking for. So with that being said, thanks again for joining us, and we'll see you next week. Thank you.