#38 | The Truth About Cattle Tubs: Is It All Hype?

Why would we want to sustain a resource that's been so degraded over time? We want to rebuild that resource. I'm actually looking forward to our children, our son, our daughters coming back. Know, all our kids can be around. Mean, that's that's a big wish and a big dream. Nobody wants to inherit a break even business. Welcome back to That Ranching Podcast. Today, I have the pleasure of welcoming Lindsey and Shane Maddock here at Matic Ranch Supply, Maddock, North Dakota. A lot of Maddocks there. Yeah. Can you folks introduce yourself? Start with you, Shane. I'm Shane Maddock. We're our ranchers in Central North Dakota here, North Of Maddock. This is my wife Lindsey. We own Maddock Ranch Supply in Harvey, North Dakota. Feed mix, it's a feed mill in Harvey, North Dakota also. We have four kids. We have three daughters and one son. And so we get to be ranchers and parents and raise our family in the midst of it so. That's really cool. Business owners so. Yeah. So you're you're ranching and you're doing business and you're raising a family, there's a lot of irons in the fire. So any of the kids getting old enough to help? Yes. Our oldest is 13. Okay. And probably more so reluctantly but she is a great helper when she wants to be. Yes, they are. And the younger ones, they'd love to be part of everything, know, in on all the actions. Have anywhere from 13 to 10, a six year old and a three year old. Okay. Well, rarely do we leave the house without somebody who's like, can I come with? Can I come with? Yeah. Yeah. Well you guys are... It's of intriguing to me because the the way your family operates and and you're all working together, but you're doing some things different. And I don't say that in a bad way, but sometimes in life I think it's not a bad idea to challenge status quo. Not for change sake, but for doing the right thing sake. And I often joke with Riomax, we were all natural before all natural was like a good buzzword or a cool thing. We did all natural right from 2006 because it was we felt it was the right thing to do. So maybe you can walk us through a little bit on your ranch, Your approach to ranching and running that holistically. Sure, yeah. So first I'll say, I'm a fourth generation rancher on a first generation ranch. In 2014, me and Lindsey had the opportunity to go and strike out on our own and form our own ranch and so we took that opportunity. And then later on, we had the opportunity to bring my brother and my dad in to the fold and we brought two ranches together to make one again. But from the get go and since I was a little kid, we've always been regenerative in our approach to ranching. Whether it's cell grazing, intensive grazing, mop grazing, it's always bale grazing, cover crops. It's always been first and foremost what's best for the soil. And so before we make any decision, before we put crops in, form a grazing plan, it's always like what is best for our soil, what's gonna be most beneficial for the soil and for us and make us the most profit? So the soil is at the... It's really foundational to this whole thing. And then you use that as a lens to make every decision through. That's really cool. So using that as a lens or decision making pivot point is... Does that... Has that changed the way you do things? Oh, for sure. Yeah. You know, I don't I don't just do the status quo. Yeah. Whatever what my neighbor's doing, what the guy down the road is doing, know. And maybe those guys are making money, but I'm looking through the lens of, okay, I wanna build this for the long term and I want the lowest input put I can with the highest return. How can I get that soil to be highly fertile and raise the best crops possible without throwing a bunch of input into it? Yeah. That's great. And we always say work with mother nature not against her. And that sounds like a bit of a cliched term but it's so true because when you start working with that natural cycle, the mother nature had this figured out before man tried to do his thing and so that's what I I I think it's such a inspiring story that you don't have to be... Some people think of regenerative ag as sort of out there and you're just normal people doing it but but you're making your decisions different and that's what's what I'm getting here. For sure. And you know, like you said it's... Mother Nature has always done it this way. It was not until the modern agriculture one hundred and fifty years ago when we started trying to force our ideas on how to do this. But if we go back a thousand years ago, when the bison roamed the plain, you know, they had that herd mentality, they stuck together and there would be thousands and tens of thousands in one herd. And they would move and they'd trample and they'd lay dung and urinate all over the land and then they would move on. Yeah. And that land had ample time to rest and recover before anything else returned. Yeah. That... Impact. Right. Yep. That's how we got those tremendous, the tremendous deep soils of these plain... In these plains. Yes. Yeah. And there's documentation from way back then with the... Would they say riding horse and through those those prairies with grass that was shoulder high to a horse. I mean, there's a lot to that and I think regenerative agriculture has a bit of a thing that it's the new thing, a bit of a fad. In fact, it's actually age old. Yeah. Going back to... It is. We're just trying to figure out what mother nature had you know, before we man arrived. That, how do you see the Riomax and the Rhyzogreen playing in? Are they helping that journey or are they sort of an addition to or where do they fit? It fits wonderfully really. Mean even just the other day when we were out moving cows and then we moved the tubs with them and it's like, well right over there is some Kentucky bluegrass. We want less of that, right? It's just an invader. So, that's where we put our tub. So, now we are gonna get the animal impact there and hopefully reduce our invaders and get more of our native species to come back. In that same particular area, we had had a gopher problem at one point in time. And so, I think there's a lot of just feeding the soil, whether it be with the animals doing it, the manure, I think Shane wants to talk a little bit about the manure. We'll let him have that moment but... Not yet. I think that that manure breaking down and bringing the helping, you know, that soil come back to life and so many factors feeding that. Yeah. It goes together beautifully. So. It does, yes. Yeah, well that's that's really cool. Maybe you can take us into the manure, that's one of my favorite subjects and and the reason I like manure is because it's a metric that you can see with your eyes. You can scrape a stick through it and look at the the texture, the consistency and it's... It takes science and makes it like dummy down so even I can understand it, but... Well, yeah. And the thing about Riomax and as you know Owens and most people that are using Riomax is it's a it's a natural product, it's natural minerals. They're easy digestible. There's no sulfates or oxides in it. So what goes in an animal ultimately comes out of an animal and as on our goes on to our pastures on our soils and our soil microbes, if there's something in there that they don't like, they don't wanna eat, our insects don't wanna be in there, those paths won't break down. And then before we started with Riomax, I would have manure paths that would last year, two, before they had ever break down. I probably drive out to the pasture now and find manure paths that are four years old if I really wanted to find them. From prior to Rio? Prior to Rio. Yeah. But, since we switched to Rio, it takes about three weeks and those manure paths are completely gone. Yeah. So, and that was one of the first things I noticed. I'm kinda, I don't know if I would call myself a manure nerd, but that's one thing I really pay attention to on our regenerative system is, okay, how much how much manure and urine am I getting spread across our pastures? Is it getting too concentrated? And then how fast is it breaking down? Cause I wanna utilize those nutrients in I'm the glad you said that part cause that's... I'm maybe not a manure nerd, but I love to find ways to get more out of what we've already got. So if you got an acre or you got a thousand acres and you have better breakdown of your manure, you're gonna get more production because the nutrients are going into the root zone and the dung beetles are a lot of times part of that transportation mechanism to get it into the root zone. But that's what I love about regenerative agriculture is because you're basically spinning this natural flywheel And then it keeps spinning. It does, yeah. Yep, for sure. So, just back to Riomax. Anything else that you're seeing in terms of what results, hay savings, forward saving, weaning weights that sort of plays into this story? Well, yeah. Definitely, we've increased our carrying capacity on the acres that we've had. I'll go back, our first year on Rio, I think was '23, maybe '22, I can't remember. But it was a horrible, horrible dry year. So maybe an inch of rain all summer long. And by the middle of July, I mean, were browning up. But we were using Rio and our pastures were kinda hanging hanging in there. We reduced the number of acres it took to graze a cow by one and a half acres that year. And, we saved a 100 acres of pasture for the following year. Okay. In a in a major drought. We were d four drought that day. When most people were pulling off of grass early. You were doing the opposite. You were doing the opposite. So you saved an acre and a half. What is it like five acres per... Yeah. With our regenerative system, we were doing between five and six acres and then when we added Rio into it, it's been like four to four and a half. Yeah. For sure, yep. And it comes back to, you know, what you're talking about carrying capacity, it comes back to the financial side of it then. Right? It's not just regenerative ag to be doing good things for the next generation. It's actually got a financial aspect, does it? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, we have to be financially profitable in this business if we want our... If we wanna build a legacy that will carry on to our children, our grandchildren. Nobody wants to inherit a break even business. Yeah. And we wanna pass on profitable businesses that will, you know, will surpass generations. Yeah. So, yes. So Riomax and and Rhyzogreen are a great tool to help us achieve those goals. And I'll you talk to Rhyzogreen just to introduce it to the listeners. Taking the same science of feeding microbes in the rumen of a cow with Riomax, So there's more of them, they're more active, they do a better job of extracting nutrients. We do, we use that same science in the soil to feed your native soil microbes. Here we are in North Dakota and we're feeding your North Dakotan microbes. Right? We're not trying to introduce some foreign species. We're feeding your native microbes. And and they serve to unlock the nutrients in the soil and make them plant available. So that's sort of how the science works. But what does that look like on the ranch? Does it sound like a bunch of foo foo dust like I'm saying or? No, it's not. It's real thing when you feed those soil microbes and they're able to go to work for you and release those nutrients. It's amazing what the plants will do with that natural organic, I guess you could call it fertilizer or nutrients that it's able to pull up and and utilize how much more dense and nutritious that plant will become. Yeah. Yeah. You've used it on your corn silage? We used it on corn silage this year, yep. Yep. So... How did you get along? There's a major difference. I think we're gonna be in that... We're gonna probably be anywhere from 10 to five to 10 tons more per acre than we normally would that would run-in this area. And, that's saying we were even... We were really dry in July too. So... So, it wasn't like you just had a really good year of moisturizing. No. Shut off. Yeah. For a long time. Yeah. Okay. So what would the average be then? Like a tons per acre? Between fifteen and twenty tons in this area. That would be the average. Yeah. And what what what do you... We're gonna we're gonna push that 25 to 30 ton range I think. Okay. Yeah. So, yep. The silage corn is probably 12 feet tall. Wow. So, and I I got you know, the ears on it are probably that long and Okay. It's it's pretty significant different. Well, I I think you know, we're we're not here to say you gotta move away from fertilizer or Rhyzogreen can eliminate fertilizer. But it certainly can help you unlock and and extract more goodness out of the fertilizer that makes a plant available. For sure. So if you're spending you know, every dollar you spend on fertilizer you get more out of to the plant. Because there's a high percentage of fertilizer that is not plant available, it's in a locked up form. So, you're paying for it but you're not getting the benefit of it. And the missing key or catalyst is life in the soil. Surprise again. So we talk about Q fifty at Rhyzogreen Nutrition. Our quest to increase ranch efficiency by 50%. And that's looked at from two ways, one is Rhyzogreen helping get more production per acre, we see 10 to 30% increase as an average. And then Riomax helping get 15 to 30% more savings. So we're producing more forage and we're using less forage. So you start compounding that, you do see that 50% increase in efficiency. What are you guys seeing or how does that math look like to you in day to day ranching? Was it last year we're on that webinar? What did I call it? Rancher math or monkey math? But I I'd said you know, if we'll just take a 100 cows for example, if we can use Rhyzogreen and increase our pasture forage growth by 15%, well ultimately that's 15 more cows we're able to run on the same amount of acres. Right. So and then if we add Riomax into that equation and on the conservative side, we can do another 15%. Well now we've increased our carrying capacity from a 100 cows to over a 120 cows. Yeah. With just adding Rhyzogreen and and that ultimately is not only pays for itself, return on that is really good. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you add in heavier weaning weights, better conception rates and I think our cows go into winter better than they ever have in the past condition wise is very good. That's cool. So, there are a lot more successful coming out of winter when they go in looking good. Yeah. Having some condition on them especially up here in North Dakota. I was just out at a customer's place last week and he just started on Riomax's last spring. And I went out to to the pasture and we're looking at his cows and those cows came running up and I go, wow, those cows look like they've been on Riomax and he said, they're the best they've ever looked. Is that right? Yeah. A dry year. In a dry year. Yeah. So... Yeah. So he was pretty... He was really happy with how Riomax has been working out for him. Well well, in regenerative ag you talk about efficiency. You know, efficiency is almost more important than just profitability in isolation. And there was an old guy that said to us years ago, he said he said to me, son, efficiency will never go out of style. Mark my words. And here we are probably twenty five years since he said that. And efficiency is what we're talking about here. Efficiency is what you're measuring in regenerative ag. Efficiency is not trying to you know, starve a profit out of a cow or you know, just really just go for yield and yield only. It's looking at that longer term flywheel and working with mother nature. For sure. Definitely. And you know regenerative egg too, know. We out there is this saying not too long ago you know sustainable agriculture but why would we want to sustain a resource that's been so degraded over time? We want to rebuild that resource so that I think that's when the regenerative, regenerative eggs been out forever but everyone started really pushing that term regenerative agriculture. We want to build things back up, we want to regenerate it. Yeah. But just with that mindset and using those methods of regenerative agriculture, it's amazing how much more efficient you can get just with that alone and then you add in some of these other tools that come along with it and it just makes us ranching enterprise just so much more profitable, but it's more fun to just go out look at your cows too and how they're functioning and how your soil is functioning. Yeah. I mean, you get to the fall of the year and you have ample grass that normally you would have it grazed off because... Right. And you just got more grass than you know what to do with. It's really fun to be in the ranching world when you're doing that. Yeah. I I think we're kinda getting into the the core of this and this how it makes you feel when you're working with an abundant ecosystem. And it's an abundance mindset and you're working in sync with mother nature and you're seeing the results. So talk to me a little bit about the legacy. When you get this flywheel going and you got the next generation as you alluded to earlier, how does that look? Well, I mean we obviously have a passion for agriculture and raising cattle and livestock and I think more so it's the way of life you know. And I don't know that kids really learn to appreciate that, I probably didn't as a child learn to appreciate it until you're an adult, right? So, on a day to day, maybe they don't always see the benefits of the lifestyle we're living, but I think once they maybe go to college and come back and they're gonna want to raise their family in the same sort of system and you know within the different businesses that we have going on but the base of it is the ranch you And that's kind of what started it all so I think they'll want to provide that for their family too. And not only that too, it's whenever you do something, know, when you work hard at something that you want some rewards with that too. With the way we're ranching and the products we're using and stuff like that, we get to experience those rewards hopefully our children get to see how that affects us and want to have those same feelings and strive for those same things. Yeah, that's really cool. And you think about you know, passing on to the next generation. If you pass on a wore out farm that had just had all the nutrients just mined out of it or even a cow herd that was very dependent on synthetic inputs to prop it up, you wouldn't feel that good in handing that on to your own offspring. I wouldn't know. Whereas, how do you feel handing something like this on? Oh, yeah. I'm actually, we talk about it all the time. I'm actually looking forward to our children, our son, our daughters coming back and hopefully bringing husbands back. Maybe if we continue on this path, with what we've already built, there'll be enough there to be able to have four families working on it and you know all our kids can be around. I mean that's a big wish and a big dream but that would be you know if we keep going and our land is functioning and our cattle are functioning and all these things are working together for the good of things, I could see having at least two of my children coming back and being part of it. But regardless if they come back or not, they're still taking with them what they learned. Right. And wherever that takes them at least they still have that foundation. Yeah. Well, this is great. It's a great discussion and I think it brings hope back into agriculture. Agriculture has taken a bit of a beating over the years. I think breathing some life back into it, some regenerative approach, healing the land, working with mother nature but then you know the family aspect and that regenerative, that generational aspect is heartwarming. Brings life back into agriculture. Good. Any further comments to the viewers on regenerative ag? I would just encourage if if you're curious, there's a lot of great organizations out there that promote it. North Dakota, we have the North Dakota Grazing and Coalition. There's the Leopold Sand County Foundation. NRCS is a great resource to... They're really starting to dig into some of the more regenerative things instead of just handing out money for programs. They really wanna dig into these regenerative programs and and really help guys get to a point so it's not so financially burdensome in the beginning to get some of these things going. And get it started. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good. Thanks for joining us today and thanks for joining us on this That Ranching podcast. We will see you again next Thursday morning.